Depending on how the next four years go I’m on the fence between Bush Jr. and Trump but I’d like to hear from you
Edit:
Top 10 suggestions so far (unordered):
- Andrew Jackson
- Andrew Johnson
- George W. Bush Jr
- Ronald Reagan
- Richard Nixon
- James K. Polk
- Woodrow Wilson
- James Buchanan
- Franklin Pierce
- Donald J. Trump
I’d probably say someone like Andrew Jackson before even thinking about Trump being the worst. Jackson did a literal genocide with the Indian Removal Act
Touché. His first term wasn’t that horrible (although it wasn’t good either). I’m still mad they organised a meeting with Kim just to tell him to go fuck himself. That character development could become spicy. On the other hand would we even have had a meeting with Clinton in power?
But hey, he still has four years and a lot of plans to claim a podium place.
While W. sucked in many ways, there is no way he is the worst. Off the top of my head I can easily think of four better contenders: Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan (both guilty of pro-slavery fuckery before the Civil War), Andrew Johnson (fought to let the Confederates off the hook after the war and opposed the 14th amendment), and Donald Trump (first president to be impeached twice, first to be convicted of a felony, and may be remembered by future historians as the spark that ignites the next Civil War).
donvict ain’t done yet, either. i think the damage and legacy he leaves behind, leaking out that giant diaper, will be the worst of the bunch.
Btw. question from Germany regarding Trumps Felony: I read that people convicted of a felony may not vote yet I also read that Trump cast his in Florida. Hoe does it actually work?
He was convicted in New York so Florida doesn’t care.
It is complicated because the rules are different in each state. Also, Trump was convicted in New York state but he resides and votes in Florida.
For out-of-state convictions, Florida defers to the other state’s rules. New York would allow Trump to vote if he resided there because he is not currently in prison, so Trump can vote in Florida legally.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-felony-conviction-can-he-vote-b95e7b4c9158d999e8bc89b00fbda911
America doesn’t have laws and isn’t a functioning society.
He’s rich and white so laws don’t apply to him.
Question from another European about that, he’s convicted but never got a sentence? Or did he and why in that case isn’t he serving?
Sentencing was delayed until after Nov. 5th, and now it’s been permanently delayed. I’m sure the conviction will be overturned at some point while he’s in office
Non burgers here: I believe the sentencing for the conviction was delayed till after the election. And since that they have announced it has been delayed indefinitely.
Ronald Reagan did more damage to this country than any president before or after him.
Before or after him so far
I feel like the “so far” is implied…unless you’ve somehow figured out how to 100% accurately predict the future and you haven’t told anyone.
…By the way, if that’s the case, rude.
I’m continually shocked by how often I learn of some structural systemic issue, pull the thread to see where it started and- oh, surprise, it was once again Reagan.
Most of Reagan’s agenda came from the heritage foundation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eeCPRD0Hgg&t=0
The capital class controls the heritage foundation and through their countless think tanks, lobbyist, donations, SuperPACs, etc they control the Republican party and even a large part of the Democratic party.
Marx was correct when he argued that economic democracy was necessary for political democracy. When the wealthy get to own the economy they have the entire country by the balls.
It’s tempting to pick someone recent, but the real answer is probably Andrew Jackson. He successfully engineered a genocide, trampled the Constitution and human rights, and was actively hostile to limits on Presidential power.
We’ll see if 47 surpasses him. He’s set up to do so. It’s going to be wild to see what happens when Trump order troops to fire into crowds of American citizens.
We always seem to get this crazy hyperbole that Trump is going to be some competent fascist that’s going to perform some great coup that will end the US, but in reality it always seems the real damage he does is the evil bureaucracy that erodes rights and liberties while exacerbating things in foreign policy.
Jan 6th was very flashy, but comparatively speaking, nothing really happened.
Have anyone but him and Biden overseen genocides?
overseen? Yes.
With Jackson, it’s not overseen, it’s orchestrated
Just wondering if you had a few other overseen examples off the top of your head since you seem knowledgeable on this.
Andrew Jackson and it’s not even close. Not to downplay the horrible crimes committed by many of our other presidents but I don’t think anything rises to the level of the Trail of Tears.
Remove Jackson from the running and it’s a more interesting conversation, however thinking about it reveals just how interconnected all of this stuff is. While the current genocide is occurring under Biden, we can’t forget that the conditions that lead to Oct 7 were created under Trump. For that matter so were the conditions that lead to the escalation of the war in Ukraine.
I think the worst in my lifetime by a mile is Dubya, but while his wars were massive and consequential we can’t forget that George Senior also killed scores of people in Iraq, and Clinton carried out the sanctions regime that killed scores more. Clinton was also the one who broke Labor’s influence within the Democratic Party - but it was Obama who was swept into power on the promise of a working class revolution only to smother it in its crib.
But yeah my top two are Jackson and Dubya but beyond that I’m not sure there are a lot of crimes in the history of America’s presidency.
lol trump is bad but not like Andrew Jackaon bad.
Probably
- Andrew Jackson - Crimes against native people
- Andrew Johnson - Fucked up reconstruction
- Ronald Reagan - Trickle down economics
- 45/47 🤮 - We all know why…
- Richard Nixon - The Infamous Crook
Might have some memory gaps, but these are what I can remember from the top of my head.
If you think Trump is worse than
you’re telling everybody that you think norms are more important than a million dead brown peopleObama killed WAY more brown people than W. Millions of dead brown people only matter when it’s not your team, huh?
[citation needed]
See: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan.
Don’t be willfully ignorant.
you said millions. I can not find a citation for that. Nothing close…? sooo provide a citation for your outrageous claim, don’t call me ignorant for asking you to back up your own words, fucknut.
Wikipedia doesn’t seem to agree but Im sure YoU dID Y0uR rESeARcH
‘Obama embraced the US drone programme, overseeing more strikes in his first year than Bush carried out during his entire presidency. A total of 563 strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms, compared to 57 strikes under Bush. Between 384 and 807 civilians were killed in those countries, according to reports logged by the Bureau.’
Wait, how much though?
I’m confused… how much kill on Middle East?
I dunno, Nixon’s fuckery is downright provincial these days.
Reagan definitely deserves a top 5 spot.
Y’know, Nixon was also ultimately responsible for the extensive bombing of Cambodia and the extension of the Vietnam war, both of which killed millions (the former by laying the ground work for the rise of the Khmer Rouge) BUT the important part was that he spied in Democrats! Not to defend Trump, he’s a vile removed that would serve the world best as fertiliser, but his legacy doesn’t even remotely hold a candle to the likes of Nixon, Dubya, Truman/Eisenhower etc.
Don’t forget that the SCOTUS appointed by 47 ended the American experiment since Presidents are now effectively kings. Thanks to Presidential immunity, we no longer get to say nobody is above the law.
Elected Temporary Dictator with small restrictions.
They still have to get rid of elections to make thing permanent, and time will tell if they actually managed to do so.
The federal government doesn’t run elections, states do. Whether or not states decide to resist the tyranny of the federal government will decide if we will have legitimate elections.
Swing States do not all have a republican trifecta.
Also remember there are non-maga republicans, like Brad Raffensperger.
And president does not yet have unlimited power, only immunity from breaking laws. The president still have to find those yes-men to do their bidding.
He cant just say “Kill all Democrats” on day one. That aint happening. The military isnt maga yet.
It takes time to purge the military. Not every non-maga military member is gonna announce their beliefs. You cant find them all and purge them all in 4 years. Hitler already had a majority of loyalists in the military when he became chancellor. trump does not. Not yet.
When the federal government becones tyrannical, states can declare federal actions unconstitutional and use their state national guards. Then our country’s fate is up to the military and national guards.
The US can totally become a dictatorship forever if we don’t change course, but there is still time to reverse course.
By this analogy, where does Biden, the American Paul von Hindenburg, land? Like obviously it’s worse to actually abolish democracy, but surely working with those doing it and doing nothing to stop them is also evil?
E: As a disclaimer about my political views, I believe that Trump and every other US president should be executed for crimes against humanity.
Woodrow Wilson? He’s the founder of modern US imperialism and a part of the reason most people are on this site due to the legacy of US imperialism.
If Trump makes your top 5 and the Bushes don’t, you’re a lib
How is it even close between Dubya and Trump like honestly Bush started the war on terror, killing and displacing millions.
Atm I rank Bush higher but Trump still has another term to catch up.
putting trump in the top 5 is lib shit
What’s wrong, snowflake, are you triggered by this conversation? Don’t worry, if his cabinet succeeds in their plans to eliminate vaccines and shut down life-saving agencies such as NWS, you’ll get to see genocide at home. And even though he hasn’t eliminated the department of education yet, there’s a chance you may already be one of the victims of the conservative agenda.
Trump’s not even bad by republican standards, he’s just vulgar and baffoonish. Replace him with Jeb! or Ron DeSantis or your garden variety Republican and you’d get the same defunding, same deregulation and same enshittification as him, just more subtle.
Come back when he’s killed a million Iraqi civilians over fictional WMDs or getting several million people addicted then dead over opioids by deregulating prescription.
He didn’t commit war crimes in Vietnam, spill over to Laos and Cambodia. Come back when he pardons the perpetrators of My Lai. Come back when he interns Japanese and nukes civilians. Come back when he Manifests Destiny.
Top 5 my ass
You have grossly misread the intent of that comment, chief. She’s saying that putting Trump in top 5 worst (atm) downplays America’s historical atrocities such as invading Vietnam, killing 20% of the population of North Korea, Iraq war, Afghanistan war, etc
Sorry, I wasn’t looking at it in terms of just the senseless loss of lives, but also how much damage was being done at home. Yeah there’s a lot of hard lines there to cross but Trump has made a policy of tearing the nation apart instead of trying to bring people together, and that weighs a lot to me.
If it’s about domestic damage, then every president who owned slaves or supported segregation still beats him.
E: Also every president who was involved in the genocide of the indigenous peoples of America to an extent more than Trump (IE he probably ties Biden and Obama on this).
Imagine it being a bad thing to tear apart an evil empire
critical support to Trump collapsing the genocidal American empire
Even by that metric he isn’t the worst.
im not even amerikkkan lol get a life you weird loser?
uh lets see,
- Andrew Jackson
- Harry S. Truman
- William McKinley
- George W. Bush
- Woodrow Wilson
pretty easy if you actually read a book
I’m still on the fence about W. just because he didn’t really do anything on his own, he just took the excuse to continue his daddy’s war. I think if Sr. had gotten another term in office he would have ramped things up, but either way I think the family as a whole pushes up there on the list.
For the rest of the list… yeah it’s not hard to find a lot of presidents who have killed a lot of people. However the original question was about the worst president overall, which to me includes the damages done here at home. Trump is high on my list simply because of how far back he has set us in terms of equal rights, moving beyond the pettiness of racism, dealing with important things like the unfolding climate disaster, and his nonchalant attitude that Palestine and Ukraine need to just surrender because being in the news cycle is inconvenient to him. Looking at Trump’s agenda of just how much he wants to destroy things here, I find it concerning that the only thing stopping him is a few Republicans that still have a moral compass.
terminal West wing brain lol
Republicans that still have a moral compass
Lib status confirmed. They don’t have a moral compass lmao they just don’t like him saying the quiet part out loud
He single-handedly launched the war on terror tf are you talking about
I’m still on the fence about W.
Don’t worry, if his cabinet succeeds in their plans to eliminate vaccines and shut down life-saving agencies such as NWS, you’ll get to see genocide at home.
So it’s ok when it’s happening to the browns? Fucking racist shit heel, liberals are all the same under whatever facade they’re mouthing off about.
Do they? I wouldn’t know, the only racists I’ve ever met were conservatives. Dems at least try to pass laws beneficial to everyone and not just rich white folks. But Liberals? No clue, I don’t pay much attention to them.
Dems, you mean the ones that were willing to throw immigrants in the trash and give Republicans everything they wanted wrt the border so they could fund a war directly leading to ww3? The ones also willing to throw as much money as possible and ignore the most popular position in their own constituency (permanent ceasefire) to allow Israel to keep killing Palestinians? The ones that intentionally barred Palestinians from speaking at their conventions? The ones that immediately turned to blaming Muslims, Mexican immigrants, and black people when they lost the election? OH YEAH THEY DEFINITELY TRY FUCKING MORON
his nonchalant attitude that Palestine and Ukraine need to just surrender because being in the news cycle is inconvenient to him.
Motivations aside, if he really does want Ukraine to “just surrender” (which remains to be seen beyond rhetoric) then it’s one of the only good positions he has. Ukraine 100% needs to surrender. Absolutely nothing good comes from it continuing to fight. It only means more death and emisseration of working people and more profits for the military industrial complex. It’s honestly rather repulsive when people lump Palestine and Ukraine together like that as if they’re even remotely the same thing. One is fighting a deeply asymmetric struggle of survival against their own genocide by a settler colonial ethnostate that seeks to eradicate them from the earth, the other is a nazi coup government fighting a proxy war for imperialists that uses their own working class as cannon fodder in a conflict that could have been resolved years ago with no loss of life.
Scratched liberal.
☝️🤓
In addition to what everyone else has said to point out how absurd it is to put Trump in the top 5 worst presidents, there’s also the fact that almost every significant Trump policy was continued or worsened by Biden. Even the ones that democrats pretended to care about when it suited their agenda like kids in cages, building the wall, and increasing fossil fuel extraction. So if you want to talk about all the ways Trump is an evil piece of shit (which he most certainly is) to put him in the top 5 worst, then you had better make sure Biden is even higher on that list.
I agree there have been (way) worse presidents than pre 2nd term Trump but he has a lot of potential.
This question is too difficult, there are too many candidates…
I think I have Trump derangement syndrome but for Bush Jr. instead cause very few people make my blood boil just by seeing their face like that scum.
I have yet to see a picture of him where he doesn’t look like he has no clue of what is going on around him.
Woodrow Wilson was so racist that he was quoted in an epigraph for “The Birth of a Nation.” You know, the 1915 movie about how awesome the KKK was, which became the first true “blockbuster” film and which led to a huge resurgence in KKK activity. Not only that, but Woodrow Wilson also personally invited the filmmakers to screen the movie in the White House - the first movie ever screened in the White House, by the way. Honorable mention!
As well as hating black people he also hated Slavs too and laid the foundations for anti-soviet US foreign policy
what? He gave the Slavic nations self-determination, there are roads named after him in e.g. Czechia, Slovakia; and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?
He gave the Slavic nations self-determination
Absurd claim. Slavic nations risen due to collapse of the three european empires in WWI.
and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?
-adolf hitler
wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy
The Soviets wanted deescalation after WW2, and supported self determination for liberated countries including Korea, Vietnam, Greece and Italy. Whatever you think of communism, the American policy of “containment” is directly and indisputably responsible for the suppression of democracy in dozens of countries and wars which killed tens of millions of people all because some of those people would have elected communist and socialist leaders we didn’t like.
lol
andrew jackson (or johnson can never remember which) for the trail of tears. absolutely awful
Andrew Jackson was Trail of Tears, but I actually think Andrew Johnson was arguably worse. He was Lincoln’s Democrat vice president (he was brought on to help “balance the ticket” instead of sticking with his strongly abolitionist first term VP Hannibal Hamlin), who started dismantling reconstruction and giving the power back to the former slaveowners.
You can pretty much lay Jim Crow at his feet.
me if enough of you write in “EstraDoll” in 2028
lmao BASED
Going for the low hanging fruit, huh?
I’m having a hard time deciding between grape and kiwi what about you?
Strawberry, for sure
Everyone loves strawberries
(But ngl I just really wanted to know what people would say. I find some answers very reasonable, others quite debatable. But I’d also be interested in what Lemmy thinks is the best president the US has ever had)
Reagan. Without a doubt Reagan.
