Me months ago: “the NRA matters and feminism matters and the solution is making sure women have more and larger guns and better tactical training.”
Everyone back then was like “no guns are bad!” and now suddenly, look who is seeing the light.
Trans people should not be armed. Trans people should be given vouchers to buy large amounts of weapons so they can be HEAVILY armed and also should be given subsidized weapons training by the government.
When I meet a trans women, I want to admire her dress and know she has excellent tactical training.
We need to stop seeing gun rights as a left or right issue and appreciate the fact that guns are anti-tyranny. The left’s constant anti-stance alienates a huge number of working class people as well. The problem with any sort of “reasonable restrictions” is the government always wants more, more regulation, more rules, and little by little it gets harder for the average guy or gal or intersex person. Liberals need to stop alienating middle America with this anti-gun stuff so we can protect trans people.
Nothing gets republicans talking about gun control faster than minorities arming.
Lol, this thread is a train wreck and is the perfect example of why Republicans keep winning elections despite being on the wrong side of history and having policies that hurt the American population at large.
The left will never win as long as we form circular firing squads and argue over petty bullshit.
why do you think the guns are pointed in a circle
I like how your comment is the perfect example of the behavior that you claim to oppose. You’re cutting into the left while identifying yourself as left, and everything you wrote was destructive. Congratulations?
There are several reasonable positions that a person could take on this issue. You could point out the entertainment in increased calls for gun regulation. You could point out the consistency with saying that you’re going to arm yourself as long as guns are legal, but also be in favor of increased gun regulation. You could point out that there are different factions within the Democratic party and on the left in general, and how people all have their own varying agendas. You could encourage a general strategy for Democrats and Democrat supporters to get along. But you did none of that, because you didn’t care. And I don’t mind if you care, but I want other people to see it, just in case they do.
Keep forming that circular firing squad.
I’m going to slip out and duck down over here to eat some popcorn.
Fucking FINALLY.
Yes, women should be armed. Gay people should be armed. Trans people should be armed. Religious minorities should be armed. People that are on the political left never should have ceded the right to keep and bear arms to the political right.
I’m planning on getting certified as a firearms instructor through the NRA (because no matter how shitty the NRA-ILA is, the training programs are solid) this coming year so that I can start working with The Pink Pistols and Operation Blazing Spear.
I would strongly suggest that people try reading This Nonviolence Stuff’ll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible.
If you’re one of the people that is considering getting a gun, please listen to the “It Could Happen Here” podcast episode titled, Safe Gun Ownership.
Bad ideas are always bad.
It’s only a bad idea when the people who want to hurt you aren’t armed. Sadly, in America, that’s not the case.
Nope, time and again we see law enforcement doesn’t work that way for minorities. The same gun laws that protect the majority are used against those in minorities.
Also gives cops an excuse to kill us. Which they often use.
The kind of cop you are talking about is a coward. They are far less likely to harass protesters when they are open carrying.
A very american perspective, tbh. From soneone in a country where you’re not allowed to carry a gun around as a random idiot, it’s so wild to read.
Then again, I also understand that this external perspective has little meaning. You can’t magically wish the laws + all those guns away, and like in any arms race you can’t be entirely unarmed until you can enact a more permanent de-armament solution later.
It’s actually a lot less common for regular citizens to open carry in the US than some might think from US News. It’s unusual in a protest, and almost always a far right thing. It has been used effectively by the left, but not at scale in the last 50 years.
The most effective protest movements usually have two approaches going on at the same time, one that threatens violence, and one that is strictly non violent. Non violent movements tend to be ignored until negotiations with them are seen as more favorable than dealing with an armed movement.
Cops fearing for their lives is the #1 reason they pull a gun and shoot
It’s one thing for them to be afraid you might be armed, and quite another to know you are armed and surrounded by allies who are also armed.
Works for gangs all the time yeah?
I do not blame any woman or queer person arming themselves in the U.S. right now. But I think that you should think of it as personal protection rather than preparation for something larger.
Be aware of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disarmament_of_the_German_Jews
The Jews of Germany constituted less than 1 percent of the country’s population. It is preposterous to argue that the possession of firearms would have enabled them to mount resistance against a systematic program of persecution implemented by a modern bureaucracy, enforced by a well-armed police state, and either supported or tolerated by the majority of the German population. Mr. Carson’s suggestion that ordinary Germans, had they had guns, would have risked their lives in armed resistance against the regime simply does not comport with the regrettable historical reality of a regime that was quite popular at home. Inside Germany, only the army possessed the physical force necessary for defying or overthrowing the Nazis, but the generals had thrown in their lot with Hitler early on.
Obviously, women and queer people are a lot more than 1% of the population, but you can’t count on every queer person being on the right side and you certainly can’t count on every woman to be on the right side.
The second amendment was not made for personal protection
What a bunch of slave-owners thought about guns hundreds of years ago is not really relevant to today.
And if you’re going to attack someone for thinking people should be armed for the wrong reason, maybe you should find better targets.
Whoa, I’m not attacking you. I have a difference in opinion as to why people should be armed. Not saying that one does not have a right to self defense, just that i put stock in the need to collectively hold the government accountable and fight tyranny
I think we agree that it is important to consider parallels in history, but the US is not 1930s Germany.
The U.S. is almost exactly like 1930s Germany in 1932. It’s not 1933 yet.
Germany is roughly 138,000 square miles in size, while the USA is approximately 4,000,000 square miles.
The population of Germany in the 1930’s was roughly 60,000,000, the population of the US today, closer to 400,000,000.
The US does not share an international border with 10 different countries.
That’s just for starters. So while I agree there are parallels, there are a lot more differences that you’re not accounting for.
Im a liberal guess who now has a gun safe with multiple guns?
I guess we are making America great again by arming the liberals too?
Also by helping the struggling gun industry
there’s an easy solution: only buy foreign made guns.
It’s not that easy. The vast majority of imports are banned and the remaining sporting imports are subject to significant restrictions. The overwhelming majority of guns sold in the US are produced in the US, even ones from foreign manufacturers. It’s not that dissimilar to cars.
I wouldn’t say that it’s the ‘vast majority’ of imports that are banned. The Gun Control Act of '68 mostly ends up applying to very small, often cheap, pistols (“Saturday night specials”), and guns that don’t have a “legitimate sporting purpose”. The ATF has said that practical shooting competitions (e.g., two gun, three gun, etc.) doesn’t count as “legitimate sporting purpose”, but the IWI Tavor is sold in the US, and is manufactured in Israel. source for that claim
Right now Turkish guns are having a moment. The Turks are making cheap firearms–sometimes very good, sometimes just cheap-- and sometimes making outright clones of more popular popular firearms. True, you’d be supporting Erdogan, but hey, you can’t always win.
Personally, I’m waiting for someone to start importing KMR pistols. The KMR L-02 Orca OR looks like an improved CZ Shadow II Orange, but I suspect the $3200 price tag is lot steep for most people. :(
Turkey is actively killing and repressing the kurds of Syria, such as Rojava, so if we’re boycotting US manufacturers, might be good to avoid turkish one’s too if possible, to deprive their government of tax revenue.
I’m not really sure if there is an ‘ethical’ choice with the big manufacturers anywhere, just different degrees of bad, though definitely worth indirectly supporting the less bad option.
You could opt for small boutique builders that explicitly support leftists and trans, like KE Arms, but those are few and far between. Best resource I can find is this list from the liberalgunowners reddit wiki.
Alternatively, opt for buying used guns from lefitist gun stores (if you have one near you, or can order from them online to a local ffl). That’s probably the best option from a cost and ethics perspective.
I will personally vouch for Russell at KE Arms; he genuinely believes that the second amendment is for all people, regardless of race, gender identity, sexual orientation, or religion. He’s a good dude, IMO.
But fundamentally, yeah, it’s nearly impossible to buy a firearm that is 100% ethical. I know that Karl Kasarda (InRangeTV) likes Desert Tech, because they’ve been good to IRTV and haven’t given him shit about politics, religion, or affiliation with marginalized groups. I don’t like Desert Tech, because they’re run by the Kingston Clan, which is a fundamentalist Mormon cult. I’m also unwilling to buy from Daniel Defense, because they actively market themselves as being a “Christian corporation”, and I oppose that kind of religious bullshittery.
Point is, you gotta pick and choose.
At this rate America’s 4B movement is gonna stand for “bang bang bang bang”…
I thought the whole point was not to bang?
Stop banging and start banging!
So anyway, I started blasting…
I have a conundrum, maybe people in this thread can weigh in.
I’m a woman living in an area with a small but loud MAGA faction and useless police who are probably also Trump supporters. I’m also not white.
Hunting is common here, and although I’ve never been I do know how to shoot and have access to classes if I want to improve. We also have friends and family with firearms and a couple of them live nearby.
I feel like I should get a gun. I know how to use one and I want to be able to protect myself if necessary. But I’m scared of firearms. Something about them disturbs me. Maybe it’s the likelihood of someone dying once a gun comes out. Maybe it’s just a fear, however unfounded, that I can’t or shouldn’t handle such a powerful tool. But the reason behind the feeling doesn’t matter so much as my ability to overcome it, and I’m not sure I can. If I had money to burn I’d buy one just to see how I feel, but I don’t so I can’t.
In short, I’m torn. I want to be able to just get a gun for peace of mind and call it a day, but I fear that as soon as the gun is in my house I will become a nervous wreck and that will defeat the whole purpose.
I’d love to hear from anyone who feels the same or has overcome this fear.
A thing to maybe consider is to get a subscription at a range and check out a rental firearm to plink on the range. You lose some money in the experience like going to a movie or whatever, but you’re not out the full price of the firearm. Then you can decide how you feel. Granted, active fire is much different than object that sits on shelf. They’re quite docile when stationary. Even so, it’s just psychologically weird normalizing the thought of, “I have a device on this shelf that has only one purpose, to delete life.” Sure, hammers, nailguns, knives, etc. can be used for killing, but they have a useful primary purpose. Guns don’t.
Yeah I’ve been considering that, but I’m not sure the ranges near me are women friendly spaces and I don’t think I’m in the right head space to voluntarily push into a male dominated space like that. I wonder if there’s a good way to screen potential ranges, should I just come straight out and ask if they’re welcoming?
Having a life ending device just “sitting on the shelf” is definitely my biggest issue. I have an ex who would threaten to kill himself whenever our relationship was on the rocks, and while my husband is a very stable person I still have a hard time shaking the feeling that weapons+men=bad news. Though I asked if he was comfortable with me having a gun safe that he cannot unlock and he said he supports whatever is going to make me feel safest atm.
I just hate that this is where we are.
Everything you’re describing is completely reasonable. For the past decades, left-wing “policy ideas” have floated banning guns or at least some form of gun control. They state statistics, examples from other countries, testimony from gun experts, etc etc all describing how perfectly harmful just owning a gun can be and how unlikely you are to ever run into a situation where a firearm will improve your situation and chances of surviving.
This has been overtaken by the rhetoric of “they’re coming for you!tm”. The exact same playbook that was used by the right-wing. Who wins? The gun manufacturers and war profiteers.
It’s amazing to see the collective consciousness just completely glaze over from just a few years ago. If you think you’re statistically more likely to be targeted, then it’s your right to procure a firearm in the United States and I’ll leave it at that. But, if you actually look into it, you’ll find you will be put more in danger by having a firearm in the house than not.
You’re right about the mental aspect, if you own a firearm and are constantly thinking about it and the threats it can protect you from, you’ve created your own hellscape that many are already in. It’s much safer and better for the community to be involved in your neighbors lives and to form bonds with those close to you in a positive manner. Somehow, everyone’s forgotten the examples the rest of the world has set forth and have fallen into Americana again.
It’s definitely a mind fuck, going from “I support heavy gun control and don’t ever want one in my house” to “this might be the single best way to protect myself from violent fascists, should they come after me.”
I’m very involved in my community, but I live in a purple county and these days I am also feeling very outnumbered. It’s tough to essentially be in a holding pattern waiting for retribution that we’ve been told to expect.
It’s just tough, all around.
