I mean, Trump is also defending genocide too though…
Trump being worse deosn’t mean we can’t criticize Biden right now as the sitting president. I have been very supportive of the need to vote for Biden over Trump, but the Democrats need to stop doubling down on denying the atrocities in Gaza already.
Like they aren’t even using nuance or anything at this point. Threateninng the ICC is absolutely ridiculous.
First things first.
Criticizing Biden is fine, and everyone should, for the first three years and six months.
Also, if it wasn’t clear, Biden is super pissed off at Bibi for all his shit. But once trump is defeated we’ll all dogpile on. (Agree dissing ICC is vr bad as well fwiw)
Until then, there is not much difference between “not voting bc genoside” / “grr biden genocide democrats” and https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/
I can only think people either are very aware of it (because it’s exactly right) or not aware of it at all, possibly their first time eligible to vote.
But once trump is defeated we’ll all dogpile on.
So one of the other things that is very frustrating is always being told that we just need to wait until after the next election to criticize anything. Our election cycles never seem to end.
Yeah man life is really fuckin frustrating. Welcome to earf.
You absolutely should not be waiting until the next election cycle. You should be voicing your opinion, voting in off-cycle and local elections, and voting for the least harmful option in every election, including the presidential election. It’s a huge machine and voting once every 4 years for the pre-packaged candidate isn’t an effective strategy if you actually want things to change.
Vote for people that make things better in your community, city, county, state, and then think about federal elections. Displacing the trove of do-nothings or detrimental actors in the smaller elections will change sentiment in the parties and will change the candidates they put through in the primaries… but it will take years for that to happen.
Either that or revolution… but that’s going to be a whole lot worse for everyone for a few decades, best case scenario.
That’s the problem. Most of the far left idealists don’t give a shit between elections. This happens every cycle. And every cycle they never learn.
Citation please. The most politically active people I know are well to the left of me. The handful of tankies I know in real life are the most active.
Who’s their candidate? For anything?
Citation? Really? Most of social media is backed up. Go ahead and see how much the SJW’s were caring about Palestine in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2023.
You do know they have been in conflict since 1948, right? You all act like this shit is new. And it shows in the fact that NONE of you gave a shit about it until now.
That’s kind of how ‘self rule’ works. You’re supposed to pay attention to politics.
People not voting is how we got in this mess in the first place.
Why do you think the GOP’s final defense is always “both sides do it?”
TIL self rule is when you can’t criticize the government
TIL telling people to get involved in politics and to go out and vote is exactly the same as telling them to not criticize the government.
People won’t do those things unless they realize that Democratic neoliberal orthodoxy is also the enemy.
Criticizing Biden with the goal of awakening the people should be encouraged
Also, if it wasn’t clear, Biden is super pissed off at Bibi for all his shit.
It really fucking isn’t. At all. He recently went full genocide denier on Bibi’s behalf.
Bull, to the fucking shit. Genocide isn’t just something you can fucking put off. Unless you don’t really care about the genocide. Seems you’re more upset at the optics. And let’s also mention that Biden is not any more angry at the genocide than you seem to be. All his moves are token and theater and even that was only bought with mass protests and plunging confidence numbers.
People are being genocided ‘TODAY’
Seems you’re more upset at the optics.
I’m more upset that in roughly twenty weeks’ time there is a critical, no-shit, very real existential threat to the actual democratic system that underpins this entire country, which as it happens supports much of the rest of the world, and a bunch of opportunistic yahoos would happily ignore it to bitch about one of the most progressive presidents we’ve had in forty years about an entirely different country’s genocide whose policies by the by is supported by that same existential motherfucking threat he’s fighting! For goddamned fuck’s SAKE what the hell is wrong with you.
The ‘biden genicide’ crowd is absolutely performing the russian trolls’ jobs admirably. And seem to be proud of it.
in roughly twenty weeks’ time there is a critical, no-shit, very real existential threat to the actual democratic system that underpins this entire country, which as it happens supports much of the rest of the world
Everyone agrees with this
Which is why Biden should immediately pivot on this issue and save the United States from fascism
Bibi may lose this election for Biden, and spiral the world downward. This will only strengthen the ties the US has with Israel, however. Trump would absolutely throw a ton of weight behind them, and perhaps even involve the US directly in the genocide.
Bibi doesn’t give a shit about Biden, and Biden is showing an astonishing amount of weakness by not standing up to him. I’m fucking embarrassed for him, and the entire democratic party.
Agreed. If the Bushes hadn’t fucked us up so much in the middle east already we’d have maybe at least one or two more options, but right-wing assholes like GDubz and Bibi ruin everything.
If the only possible outcome is a strengthening of relations with a genocidal colonial project then the American democratic experiment has been dead for a long time
the American democratic experiment has been dead for a long time
Yes?
This is unilaterally discrediting our country on the world stage. Trump was bad enough, but we could tell the world over half the county opposed him, and that he lost the popular vote.
This guy won the popular vote, and he’s out there supporting genocide. What a fucking embarrassment to humanity these “leaders” are. Fuck them both.
Obligatory yes, I will be voting for Biden again to fend off Trump. I’ll like it even less than I did last time, though.
Buddy, our country is not so great on the world stage. You honestly think we can sink lower?
We’ve been down this road so many times and it’s always a kick in the pants when we get hung up on it again and again. To properly take a moral stance you need to gain momentum before the primaries. Biden has not been shy about his stance on Isreal and bibi has been chasing this car like a dog on crack.
Buddy, our country is not so great on the world stage. You honestly think we can sink lower?
Oh, absolutely.
We’re talking world stage. Trump wins, we will just learn what everyone else already knows.
Oh, I’m talking about the world stage too. The US remains popular in much of Subsaharan Africa and East Asia (minus China and NK, natch), and moderately popular in Asia outside of MENA, with mixed views in Latin America. Our popularity dropped in all but three countries during Trump’s term, if memory serves - Pakistan, Israel, and Russia.
you’re joking right
You are absolutely not obligated to say who you will be voting for.
If anything you’ve undercut your ‘fuck them both’ by following it with ‘but of course I will be supporting THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY’.
Do what you want at the voting booth but don’t undercut your own message by announcing your hand.
Might I add, you will also undercut the concerted effort to supress DNC turn out. Just like every other election remember the ground rules; be cagey; be indirect; accuse people of moral failings; and never ever compromise or adjust your position.
the ground rules; be cagey; be indirect; accuse people of moral failings; and never ever compromise or adjust your position.
Yes those are the rules of being a politician (gotem)
Why is it always the risk is suppressing VOTER behavior, and never a risk of intentionally suppressing the politician’s genocidal desire? If it’s a covert strategy to suppress voter turnout to raise the expectations of the voters, how does any protest ever effect change?
Me more than anyone. To this day I can’t create a reddit account. I just know, come November I want another shot of changing things peacefully. Do understand the power of the US military. Stopping Christo-fascism depends on stopping Trump from grabbing the wheel. If the DNC did their own Jan 6 before Trump was inaugurated I’d applauding it because I know, that was our last chance.
Undermining the ICC is tradition for the USA. There’s plenty of people waiting in line to get US soldiers, officers and politicians denounced at the ICC the day they’re capable of prosecuting US citizens.
Democrats have no choice but to condemn the ICC and deny the genocide is happening because for some completely unknown reason the electorate has been lead to believe Israel is a good, moral state actor with absolutely no ill-intent and has never done anything wrong that was unjustified.
Now if they ever lie to me about Israel and I find out about it…
Every time Bibi claims that the IDF is the most moral army in the world I roll my eyes.
I don’t think anyone is denying the atrocities. Or at least none that I’ve seen-
But what I AM seeing is a lot of people that understand the nuance in the situation, and trying to explain that not voting is going to get Trump. I also see people coming back to challenge this in bad faith knowing it’s been explained to them many times over.
But we’re not allowed to call these people what they are. So we have to play along with it and pretend it’s all legitimate.
A fact of living in a liberal democracy is that residents have the right to openly criticize the government
If that right is no longer exercisable then we are already lost
If Dems don’t like what voters are saying then they should change their policy. Very simple solution.
You certainly are busy responding to my every comment today. Enjoying my comment history?
And
A fact of living in a liberal democrat is that citizens absolutely DO have that right.
And other citizens have the right to call out the bad faith propagandists that aren’t here to criticize the government, but only to criticize ONE government official.
You see, we all are very aware of the silence from the “far left” propagandists that pretend to be here in good faith when it comes to criticism of the right and the factually proven worse treatment Palestine will receive under Trump.
But you don’t really care about that, do you?
Legitimately have no idea what this message is intended to communicate because it is poorly written.
However, I did not notice I replied to the same commenter more than once. I was only replying to people I thought were exceptionally irrational.
Your comments btw read like ideal versions of what the GOP would promulgate to dissuade voters from supporting Biden. So if you’re a shill, then good job; if you aren’t, then your communication skills are poor and you should try to be persuasive and likeable - both online and in real life
A right wing shill accusing me of being a shill. That’s rich. And I’m not here to be liked by people like you. Just to call them out for the ridiculous concept that not doing something will bring change- when not once in history has this ever been proven to work.
But keep up with the propaganda- it seems some people still believe you.
If you think any of my posts are right wing then you’re not sophisticated enough to be commenting, let alone voting
I don’t think anyone is denying the atrocities.
“Contrary to allegations against Israel made by the International Court of Justice, what’s happening is not genocide.” - Joe Biden.
Jesus fucking Christ man. Read for the topic, now for what you want it to mean…
No one was talking about Biden. We’re clearly talking about how the far left accuses anyone that is still voting as supporting genocide.
Goalposts can teleport, I see.
Their point is that Israel is committing genocide and Biden is abetting that genocide while also engaging in genocide denial.
Which is political suicide for the Democrats. He has seriously miscalculated this issue and needs to recalibrate immediately. There is no other option.
Trump is your option. Hope you’re ready to take that blame.
Why would any voter take the blame for Biden committing a genocide with our tax dollars?
The only reason you feel you have to pretend that it’s legitimate is because it’s true on face-value: democrats have chosen a losing position and are going to lose because of it. Rather than pledging fealty before we need to it’s far more important to work to get democrats to ammend their policy
Wishing people would ignore the issue and hold their nose isn’t a strategy to keep Trump out, it’s denial
Yes, but Republican voters pretty much ALWAYS vote, and they vote R down the whole ticket. A large portion of people who vote for Democrats only show up to vote if there is someone they can get excited about. Establishment Dems should consider this a law of the universe; it simply is the way it is. Instead of continuously trying to bully these people into showing up to vote (which has the opposite effect) maybe they should start asking what would get these people excited to vote for Joe. And then get Joe to do those things.
They act like everyone owes them a vote. They don’t. They are asking for something from the left, they need to start negotiating in good faith and expect to have to give something in return. Doing anything less than whatever it takes to get people to vote for Joe should be considered them trying to lose and get Trump elected again.
Also USA killed this many civilians in Iraq per year, during the entire duration of the war.
Is this ‘bOtH sIdEs’? or ‘wHaTaBoUt TrUmP’?
The way I interpreted their comment is that people often mention Biden supports genocide and some people may assume Trump doesn’t - so it’s worth mentioning that of course Trump supports genocide too (on top of all the other horrible shit he supports contributing to why he shouldn’t be in power).
I would be amazed if anyone on lemmy.world was at all unaware of trump’s encouragement of genocide.
I am amazed that anyone on lemmy.world could have possibly thought people on lemmy were unaware of Trump’s encouragement of genocide.
I am not surprised that it seems to be the only concern.
If I’ve learned anything about people through the past decade of politics its that you can never ever assume anything about people being intelligent in any group.
So given it an election year you could agree that comparing both potential future presidents is a healthy option.
Guess your argument is self-defeating, I’m gonna go for a hike 🤷🌲🌲
I would be amazed if anyone on lemmy.world was at all unaware of trump’s encouragement of genocide.
Plenty seem to think there’s no difference between the two, so they’re either unaware or fascists.
Shitty justifications for Biden’s support for genocide I’ve actually seen on lemmy:
In third place: That’s the way we’ve always done it.
In second: We’re worried that the people who chanted “Jews will not replace us” will call us antisemitic.
And now in first place: Trump did it so that makes it ok.
Watch Biden supporters lash out at communists and muslims if Biden fails to get reelected, rather than looking at the horrendous position the Democrats have taken.
The great thing is you don’t have to wait! They’re doing it now.
But Biden was able to negotiate with the more moderate fascists!
Most progress we’ve had since Reagan!!!
Actually not since Reagan but since Trump.
FTFY
As is tradition.
I suspect their time is spent with leftists just because it’s so infuriating to talk to Republicans at all. The leftist will argue long term versus short term strategy, the Republican will argue about what his imaginary friend wants.
Lol I’ve been yelled at so much today I can’t even tell if this is sarcastic
Owwwww my nose! Worth it though, piece of shit face!
Face: democratic coalition Nose: voters upset about supporting a genocide
Which conservative activist judges installed by trump to the supreme court overturned Roe v Wade?
I’m constantly fighting with liberals and leftists that only think of themselves. Harm reduction is not working.
Watch LGBTQ+ people get genocided right here in America because lefties decided not to vote against Fascism. Remind us again that you didn’t vote against it when that happens and see how people react.
Watch LGBTQ+ people get genocided right here in America because lefties
Conservative with a gun
LGBTQ dead body
Liberal: “Leftists did this. Now vote for me so I can pardon the conservative.”
Church!
As one of those LGBTQ+ people, I have no faith in people protecting me who won’t speak out against genocide
You still have to acknowledge that democrats aren’t going to be the party leading the genocide of LGBTQ+ people.
It’s one thing to say you don’t have faith in them protecting you. It’s another thing to clear the way for the party that actively wants to harm you by not throwing in with the only other party big enough to hold them back.
It’s not a pretty decision. But reality isn’t pretty.
Watch LGBTQ+ people get genocided
We’re armed, although liberals are doing everything they can to prevent it.
Red states are expanding their 2A rights while blue states limit their own. You have fascist militias popping up all over the place and what legislation do you think will disarm them? That cat is out of the bag. Us ‘lefties’ understand that Jon Stewart is not going to show up and save us with a witty quip when some christian nationalist has us on our knees in front of a ditch.
There may come a time we’ll all wish we had access to non-nerfed rifles and normal capacity magazines. Liberals are doing nothing productive to deal with this rise of fascism.
I’ll be voting democrat, but let’s not pretend that voting republican light is going to defeat christofascism.
Voting republican-light might mean being able to vote again at all
Yeah! And watch immigrants and migrants get deported en mass and draconian fascist law be implemented at the border…oh, what? That was Democrats too? Damn…
Well uh…bodily autonomy? No, dems had a chance to legislate that under Obama and refused to do so.
Hm…
Campaign finance reform? Oh, nope, they take the same corporate money.
The union won the civil war but the confederates won the reconstruction and have been winning since
This is a painful argument because this whole protest vote issue revolves entirely around the refusal to take the political risk of acknowledging or trying to stop a genocide.
Genocided? Lmao what? Bro, don’t cheapen the meaning of actual tragedies
Look at America under the ruling and cultural elite today: Inflation is ravaging family budgets, drug overdose deaths continue to escalate, and children suffer the toxic normalization of transgender- ism with drag queens and pornography invading their school libraries.
Project 2025 Mandate to Leadership. Page 1. Paragraph 2.
They want to barr transgender persons from the military again. Page 104.
The next HHS secretary should immediately put an end to the department’s foray into woke transgen- der activism.
Page 284. They also want CMS (center for Medicare services) to make a national coverage decision citing gender-reaffirming surgery as dangerous. Which has downstream repercussions to medicaid and private insurance. (That’s on page 474).
They want to cock-block Bostick, the ruling which extended sexual discrimination protections for transgender persons. (page 584).
Make no mistake. Transgenders are our conservatives Jews. You could replace “transgender”, “gay”, “LGBT”, “homosexual” etc in that document with “jew”, you’d swear it was written 90 years ago in Germany.
Witholding medicade is genocide?
Like fuck, Project 2025 is fascism and an existential threat to more than just LGBTQ+ individuals, but these arguments that reference witholding funding from programs as Holocaustic minimizes genocide and the threat of fascism alike.
This isn’t just about withholding Medicaid. They are also banning healthcare in half of the states for transgender minors, at one of the most critical times in their lives, even though they know this has a high potential of leading to more suicides amongst trans youth. Yes. It’s genocide.
Cool bro. Still not a gEnOcIdE
Cool story bro, didn’t knew it is actual state policy to eradicate people. Surely the millions of deaths since the constitution was changed during Biden’s administration reach American doorsteps this very instant, while civil war and chaos reigns free in a rampant spree of gore and festivities, or gorestivus, as it is known, while millions of Americans drool in awe at your captivating message.
Still not genocide tho
Ah, another “you can’t call it genocide until after they actually do it” clown.
Get fucked, Nazi.
@[email protected] cough cough
That dude is the absolute worst.
Still the lesser of 2 evils no? Not like trump’s moral compass is particularly good either…
ITT: you’re a Trump supporter if you call genocide genocide.
There’s a lot of people who plan on voting Biden, myself included, who effectively feel held hostage at this point. “Don’t criticize support for genocide or Trump is going to destroy the country and probably kill a lot of people” is probably one of the most frustrating political discourses I’ve ever experienced. The folks making this argument are right in that Trump winning is bad for everyone, including the Palestinians, and I can empathize with the pragmatism there. That said, that argument rings hollowly for me, because it comes across as so utterly cynical. It reads (to me) as though genocide registers at the same level of urgency as dysfunction at the DMV. They’re sorry for the inconvenience (and probably they really are sorry that it’s happening) but non-combatants getting starved, shot, drone striked, and buried under rubble by our allies is just not something that’s convenient to deal with right now. I wonder if they think the Palestinians find it very convenient.
There really is no third option? Strange kind of democracy.
When all you want is for Trump to lose, it means you have zero plan. Obviously if you don’t have a plan, other people are gonna carry out theirs instead.
If all I wanted was for Trump to lose I’d be covering my eyes to his flaws edit: and getting everyone else to
But you’re eagerly covering your eyes to the reality that it’s a binary choice between bad and so much worse.
You’re counting on an awful lot of people deciding to make the same value judgement as you.
Not really counting on anything- just having fun with the absurdity of your one-man ‘don’t vote for stupid, let evil win instead’ campaign.
No, definitely DO vote for him, but if it’s all you’re doing then you should probably brace yourself
But if that’s not all I’m doing I shouldn’t probably brace myself?
Idk ill let you know when he has better odds
Who the hell is defending genocide?
You have to vote for Biden or else!
vote for biden vote for biden vote for biden
Yea, we just need to vote for biden
Don’t vote for Biden. Vote for democracy. Vote for liberty. Vote for progress. Biden is an extremely fallible, flawed, individual. His name is on the ticket but there is something more. Most important and this is where everyone drops off. Keep voting.
At the very least vote so you don’t have to slog through an orange homunculus disrupting your daily struggles with more fear, terror, and human suffering.
Edit:
I got down voted for “Vote for progress”
Tell me how rational you are.
Vote for a kick to the nuts over a kick in the ass!
So inspiring. Fuck Biden for making that his offer, honestly. If that’s still the choice come november RIP democracy I guess, I don’t know many people who feel enthusiastic enough about genocide to miss work to vote for it.
Jokes on them, not voting is voting for more Genocide. I’m certain their enthusiasm for life will hit all time lows when they have Trump in the headlines every single day while more rights are stripped away.
The people you know. Suck.
Edit:
And I’m not some sort of all seeing oracle. I believe what I see with my eyes. Though it would be nice to gouge them out
The democrats are just so good at campaigning that they don’t even need to offer any good policies. Respect.
We’re 5 months out and the biden campaign site doesn’t even have any policies listed on it. It’s like he’s not even trying.
Biden apparently.
Threatening the international criminal court because they are investigating a genocide is defending genocide
That’s because of the good old boys club making sure the ICC doesn’t start grabbing “western” leaders. Not because of genocide. Make no mistake that they place themselves above any one country’s actions.
Oh? So its dependent geographical location when it’s ok to hold leaders accountable to the genocide and war crimes they cause. Got ya. Putin being a war criminal, Cheers for the ICC. But now a US ‘ally’ is getting called out for credible accounts of warcrimes and provable mens rea for genocide? Well time to threaten the ICC with crushing sanctions from the fore most super power.
Maybe they are not interested in all western leaders, just the ones who war crime? Or defend war crime?
No, it’s dependent on being a powerful and wealthy nation that uses their flex to ensure they can continue to get away with what why want. If your part of that club you began invade all kids of countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, and whoever else and nobody can actually do anything about it. However, if you’re the leader of some tiny country on the losing end of doing dirty deeds, you get a bomb in your lap or hauled off to some prison, like Noriega.
This isn’t rocket science, “western” refers to a geopolitical standing, and even if Russia doesn’t fit the “western” bill, they nonetheless fall under the “too powerful to fuck with” category.
Top text: “When you pretend you want Trump to lose”
Bottom text: “But you really want Trump to win and it’s obvious”
I don’t know what the shit happened but I think we would like a different candidate. Like it would be cool to seek mini thermonukes after the Hamas leaders but wow, they went all out and we’re at the point where Hamas is the victim and needs defending. It’s like meeting your bully after school, so he shows up and punches you, but then you body slam his face on granite and beat it with a 10ft 2x4…lengthwise.
Maybe we should try someone else. Oh wait, I forgot! We the people don’t pick a president. We just tell the government who would be cool if they were president. Then the government asks a small group of unknown people who were not elected if they agree or if they got a way better president for us instead. You know, representative democracy like that.
But nah not maga dufus. It’s gotta be someone in their mid 30s for me please.
it would be cool to seek mini thermonukes after the Hamas leaders
Wat?
There`s just no winning on this matter. Genocide Joe or dictator fascist Trump.
Totally posted in good faith
LESSER OF TWO EVILS The republicans are also pro genocide. Shut up Ivan!
While I agree with you, it’s very disingenuous to label everyone you disagree with a Russian bot on this matter. And people are very well in their right to criticize Biden for his political stance. Some people have family members that died in Palestine. You can’t expect them to jump with joy at the thought of voting for Biden.
I’m not saying Bidens stance on Palestine is favourable just that trumps is worse. Clearly both candidates are terrible, but trump winning could very well take away your ability to change that. If trump gets into power he will attempt to make any criticism of him illegal. So Israel will still be bombing the shit out of Gaza, but if you try to protest you’ll get shot.
As for the Ivan comment, the literal only person other than trump who benefits from a trump administration is Putin. So I have to assume that anti Biden memes originate with the fsb. It just stands to reason. Any rational thinking left leaning person knows what is at stake and wouldn’t be so foolish as to spread that shit.
So I have to assume that anti Biden memes originate with the fsb. It just stands to reason.
Imagine being so completely disconnected from reality that you don’t understand that people defend all kinds of positions all the time, whether they’re stupid, reasonable, well-thought or completely lacking in evidence. You would well to rethink the whole Russian bots narrative, because it turns you into a conspiracy nut unable to politically engage the people you’re trying to bring to your side.
Imagine being so completely disconnected from reality that you don’t understand that people defend all kinds of positions all the time,
Russian bots aren’t people.
What acomeback!!1!
Lots and even an overwhelming part of some topics are clearly coming out of the Kremlin, like nuclear, this idiotic take on biden only etc.
I think you have to be a time traveller, but like from 1999 to now to not see that.
Supporting terrorists or genocide? Choose your poison.
You’re still supporting genocide if you don’t vote for Biden. Trump wants to nuke Gaza.
piss or shit
if you choose shit you’ll still get a bit of piss, choose piss
When all you want is for Trump to win, but your only winning strategy in the playbook is what Reagan did to fuck over Carter back in 1980. Gotta drive those social media vibes and it worked once, right?
