The context was voters calling Harris a warmonger, not republican mouthpieces.
Your only evidence is “anecdotal” by your own admission, but your pulling this shit? I work with a guy who’s brother in law is a voter who totally thinks this, so I guess I’m right. I mean come on. Trump isn’t a Republican mouth peace, he’s the incoming President, and Vance is the incoming VP. This is shit they directly campaigned on because, presumably, they were under the impression that it would play with voters. Do you think Republican voters really think enough for themselves that what Joe Rogan says doesn’t make a difference? Please. Just admit that you will piss on any and all evidence that contradicts your establishment worldview.
voters were most influenced by inflation
The page you linked to didn’t mention inflation but I don’t disagree, except that I’d say they were most influenced by their economic circumstances, and inflation was the most obvious manifestation of that issue. The inflation we had wasn’t high enough to be a prime concern for voters who otherwise felt financially secure.
Democrats have since started working with progressives like AOC and Bernie which is a move to the left. But you aren’t the first I’ve seen to claim otherwise by saying democrats have moved right.
The context of that claim is important. I was talking about the last 50 years over which the Democrats have absolutely moved right. What I will agree with is that President Biden was a pleasant departure from that trend, even though Senator Biden had been one of the worst. The problem is that Harris did almost nothing to capitalize on what Biden had done. The most progressive move she made in the campaign was to bring on Walz, but then her campaign put him on a leash.
The pew study only showed that people on the farthest ends of the political spectrum were more likely to vote. It doesn’t support your claim that progressives voted democrat in 2024.
If you seriously assume that a significant number of people with enough political awareness to accurately self identify as progressives voted for Trump, then you are just delusional. The idea that the left-most voters would vote for the right-most candidate is the extraordinary claim that should require evidence. The Pew study also said they were more likely to donate and volunteer for campaigns. Do you figure they were knocking on doors for Trump too? Progressives carry the Democratic party, even after decades of the kind of bullshit your spreading.
As long as we admit when we are referring to anecdotal evidence then we are arguing in good faith.
Anecdotal evidence isn’t even really a thing. Presenting anecdotes as evidence isn’t de-facto bad faith, but it is when you come up with every excuse you can to ignore actual evidence.
AOC is left leaning indicating her supporters are too and in her district her supporters increased their votes for Trump in 2024 compared to 2020 and decreased their votes for the democratic candidate in 2024 compared to 2020. Meaning this is an example of left leaning voters voting for Trump in 2024.
Your logic is, let’s say, imaginative. AOC is a progressive and progressives (in her district) vote for AOC. It does not follow from that statement that everyone who votes for AOC is a progressive or generally left leaning. Aside from being progressive, AOC is also an anti-establishment populist. It makes perfect sense that an anti-establishment voter would vote for AOC and Trump - especially if they are low information voters.
“…wanted change so I went with Trump and blue for the rest of the ballot to put some brakes”
What exactly makes this candidate look left leaning to you? This is a classic low information voter response. “Last time I hit the blue button and didn’t get a cookie, so this time I tried the red button”. There is no ideology here. It’s all vibes. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats had messaging that connected with this voter, so they made a Pavlovian mechanical choice.
No, I think the 2024 election was one between fascism and the only other option which just happens to be what you call establishment democrat…
Let’s not confuse what the election was about from a consequences standpoint, and what is was about from an electoral narrative standpoint. I am in perfect agreement with how consequential this election was. My only disagreement is with the implication that it’s just me calling Harris an establishment Democrat. That’s just a statement of fact, not something controversial. There was no primary process that made her the candidate, in either 2020 or 2024. The party (and therefore the establishment running the party) placed her in that role.
And the undecided middle voters that don’t pay close attention, hear the criticisms from the left towards democrats along with the propaganda from the right towards democrats and the result was Trump winning.
If you take the criticisms from the left out of that sentence, those voters are just left with propaganda from the right. That’s not going to be any better. If they are hearing criticisms from the left, then they are almost certainly hearing criticisms of Trump and the Republicans from the left, as well as good things about the Democrats. Biden’s campaign did a far better job than Harris’ campaign at acknowledging criticisms from progressives and promising to work with progressives once elected. It looked like the Harris campaign was moving in that direction with the Walz pick, but from the convention on she was more like Hillary than Biden in this regard.
You presumably want the left to continue voting for, donating to, and knocking on doors for Democrats, but you don’t want the left to speak up when the Democrats oppose them. That’s just not realistic, never-mind fair. From a left perspective, neoliberals are not our compatriots. At best establishment Democrats are untrustworthy allies. Our intention is ultimately to replace them in the seats of power. We exist as a critique of the Democratic establishment, and they are our adversaries more than anything else.
Your only evidence is “anecdotal” by your own admission, but your pulling this shit? I work with a guy who’s brother in law is a voter who totally thinks this, so I guess I’m right. I mean come on. Trump isn’t a Republican mouth peace, he’s the incoming President, and Vance is the incoming VP. This is shit they directly campaigned on because, presumably, they were under the impression that it would play with voters. Do you think Republican voters really think enough for themselves that what Joe Rogan says doesn’t make a difference? Please. Just admit that you will piss on any and all evidence that contradicts your establishment worldview.
The page you linked to didn’t mention inflation but I don’t disagree, except that I’d say they were most influenced by their economic circumstances, and inflation was the most obvious manifestation of that issue. The inflation we had wasn’t high enough to be a prime concern for voters who otherwise felt financially secure.
The context of that claim is important. I was talking about the last 50 years over which the Democrats have absolutely moved right. What I will agree with is that President Biden was a pleasant departure from that trend, even though Senator Biden had been one of the worst. The problem is that Harris did almost nothing to capitalize on what Biden had done. The most progressive move she made in the campaign was to bring on Walz, but then her campaign put him on a leash.
If you seriously assume that a significant number of people with enough political awareness to accurately self identify as progressives voted for Trump, then you are just delusional. The idea that the left-most voters would vote for the right-most candidate is the extraordinary claim that should require evidence. The Pew study also said they were more likely to donate and volunteer for campaigns. Do you figure they were knocking on doors for Trump too? Progressives carry the Democratic party, even after decades of the kind of bullshit your spreading.
Anecdotal evidence isn’t even really a thing. Presenting anecdotes as evidence isn’t de-facto bad faith, but it is when you come up with every excuse you can to ignore actual evidence.
Your logic is, let’s say, imaginative. AOC is a progressive and progressives (in her district) vote for AOC. It does not follow from that statement that everyone who votes for AOC is a progressive or generally left leaning. Aside from being progressive, AOC is also an anti-establishment populist. It makes perfect sense that an anti-establishment voter would vote for AOC and Trump - especially if they are low information voters.
What exactly makes this candidate look left leaning to you? This is a classic low information voter response. “Last time I hit the blue button and didn’t get a cookie, so this time I tried the red button”. There is no ideology here. It’s all vibes. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats had messaging that connected with this voter, so they made a Pavlovian mechanical choice.
Let’s not confuse what the election was about from a consequences standpoint, and what is was about from an electoral narrative standpoint. I am in perfect agreement with how consequential this election was. My only disagreement is with the implication that it’s just me calling Harris an establishment Democrat. That’s just a statement of fact, not something controversial. There was no primary process that made her the candidate, in either 2020 or 2024. The party (and therefore the establishment running the party) placed her in that role.
If you take the criticisms from the left out of that sentence, those voters are just left with propaganda from the right. That’s not going to be any better. If they are hearing criticisms from the left, then they are almost certainly hearing criticisms of Trump and the Republicans from the left, as well as good things about the Democrats. Biden’s campaign did a far better job than Harris’ campaign at acknowledging criticisms from progressives and promising to work with progressives once elected. It looked like the Harris campaign was moving in that direction with the Walz pick, but from the convention on she was more like Hillary than Biden in this regard.
You presumably want the left to continue voting for, donating to, and knocking on doors for Democrats, but you don’t want the left to speak up when the Democrats oppose them. That’s just not realistic, never-mind fair. From a left perspective, neoliberals are not our compatriots. At best establishment Democrats are untrustworthy allies. Our intention is ultimately to replace them in the seats of power. We exist as a critique of the Democratic establishment, and they are our adversaries more than anything else.