I can’t use them because I can’t convince anybody to switch with me. I talk to most people on discord and I’d rather move to using Matrix, but I can’t convince any of my friends or family or anyone I know to use anything else.
I bought everyone in my family a drink to get them to use Signal. Worked great and we’re still on it.
Don’t bother trying to sell people on privacy etc, for the most part. Show them Giphy integration, stickers, Stories, etc and show them that it’s fun. Signal has done great work there, in making it “noob-friendly”
The number of times my family complains about signal not having polls…
Seems like a lot of people want that too, so hopefully they’ll add it soon
Tell them the reason they keep getting creepy ads for stuff they’re talking about in the car is FB messenger.
That creeps enough people out.
You have to negotiate.
They: Do you have whatsapp?
You: No i hate that app but we can use Rehnijobuboba, heard of that?
They: No and there’s no way I’m installing something I can’t even speak.
You: Ok, you dont want to install that and I don’t want whatsapp, lets meet halfway and use Signal together!
They: Fine.
Become unavailable on non-private messengers. Explain your reasons if asked, but stay stubborn. (And yes, it will turn out that a subset of people you know don’t give a shit about staying in contact with you.)
Don’t cut them off. Don’t cut off your influence. Delay your replies and show why. https://lemmy.world/post/21620691
“I could add you to our group chat. Do you have Signal?” Just that. No questions asked. No convincing to anything. Either “Yes” or “Let me just download”. Surprised honestly how many people either have it already or at least know it. Obviously might not work if you ever talk to the person 1-1, but starting a group chat only takes 2 people 😉
Isn’t simpleX the new kid on the block? Or Session?
If they don’t want to use private communication then just leave it. If you want privacy you have to get used to having a less social life, at least online. That’s the key really, if you want a social life, you have to start going offline, out into the real world and meet people. Get to know your neighborhood a bit or join some outdoor activity or club or something. I know it’s weird at first about going outside because we’re all basement computer nerds but you will find freedom without all the online surveillance when you leave your home.
JK, because next challenge is to convince everyone you meet that they should leave their phones are home and if you thought getting people to use Signal is hard you have no idea because that’s just step 1.
Signal is my preference. I am not going to go around proselytizing to people about it, though. I typically respond and use text as readily. It’s not my job change people. I just change what I’m willing to say openly on any other platform.
I think there is always someone who is more willing to try it, so you start from them. Like a a techy friend or a parent who doesn’t really care as long as they talk to their child. Then you can proceed by complaining to your social circle about the bad quality of the apps you currently use (like messenger). Someone will be convinced eventually. I recommend you go with signal though since element (x) apps are still not ready for
commercialevery day use.None of the alternatives are good enough yet. Either the UX is bad, or they are missing important features, or both in most cases. There is too much focus on privacy and encryption and not enough on being easy to use, and having the features people are used to.
Asking friends on Discord to switch to Matrix which is missing most of the features and bots they are used to is not going to work out. Same for Telegram to Signal or Matrix when they’re used to group chats, channels, stickers, bots to handle moderation of new users, polls, forwarding of messages, stories, and so on.
None of the Discord ‘alternatives’ that come up seem to support game streaming with low latency, some don’t even have voice rooms yet, they’re just a text chat with a meeting room feature tacked on.
Mumble is perfectly fine for low-latency VoIP for gaming—I think it was the first to even use the Opus codec everyone uses now. Mumble uses a ton less resources than an Electron app. You will want your main chat on another protocol, but this is hardly a barrier.
I just told everybody that I only reply on Threema and don’t use anything else.
My thought process was - if they can’t be arsed to use another app (which is an extremely effortless task to do) then they are probably not worth staying in contact with.
The 3 people that were most important in my life at that point got the app immediately.
After over a decade with threema I now have over 40 contacts there, mostly friends, some colleagues, multiple hobby centric groups etc.
I guess just start and don’t compromise and be patient
Me too. My Fam is on Signal now.
I just told everybody that I only reply on Threema
if they can’t be arsed to use another app (which is an extremely effortless task to do) then they are probably not worth staying in contact with
So if someone said you have to use their messagee of choice - Signal, Whatsapp, Matrix, FB Messager, Discord - you’d have no problem meeting them there because it’s effortless, yeah?
You left out two important real world aspects from your thought experiment.
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one person cares about a specific aspect of the messenger - privacy - and the other doesn’t care, they are just on whatever their peers told them to be on. So if their messenger happens to have the aspect I care about I’ll do it. Since they don’t have any such criteria I expect them to do it as well.
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If that person is important enough for me and doesn’t budge I’ll call or E-Mail them. Which is less private than an e2ee messenger, but more private than data harvesting companies.
Exactly this. I use Signal for people close to me and SMS or Email for those who don’t use signal, who I don’t have coversations with often anyways. Dispite it’s many, many flaws, I will use SMS before I use a Meta messenger.
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Anyone who thinks a secure messaging app is all they need to keep their communications private from government snooping is a fool. All of the end-to-end encryption in the world won’t really accomplish anything when there are any number of other ways to read your screen, log keys, etc. The app just encrypts messages, what happens after that on the user’s device is outside of the app’s design.
Never assume any digital device is safe. Never.
This is why my preferred way of communicating is to sit in darkness and construct one-time pad ciphers which I then put in a new safe that I don’t have the combination to unlock and is welded shut and dropped into the ocean. But other than that I like to use grapheneOS and matrix. I can’t be sure it’s 100% private, but I am 100% sure that facebook isn’t private, so I’d rather use matrix.
James Cameron now knows your secrets
I only have a few privacy-focused friends on Signal and Matrix and I talk to them that way. I have a few friends who use my personal Nextcloud and just use Nextcloud Talk to chat with me. For all others, I still use the mainstream platforms and just take care to not post any info that I don’t want public and I make sure the apps have limited info and app permissions.
I think it is tough to convince others to switch until they themselves see the need, at which point they’ll start asking you for advice on what to do.
With new contacts, I’ll usually ask if they have Signal first and if they don’t then I don’t really push it. I think just getting the name out there every once in a while is the most you can do.
Don’t try convincing anyone. Make yourself visibly more available in one place over another.
I use XMPP whenever possible. Requires many fewer resources to run on just about any hardware & I can hand out accounts if needed.
I don’t care for the centralized or de facto centralized alternatives. I regret along with my uncle convincing family onto Signal several years ago.
Why do you regret convincing your family to use signal? Is it because you wish you got them to use xmpp instead?
I would like to lose the Android phone soon. Signal will not work without an Android/iOS primary device.
But also… Signal requires a phone number for signup where a lot of countries require a passport to get a SIM (unique identifier that is easy to track you). The service is centralized so there is no sort of self-hosting option. There really aren’t alternative clients (not counting mere forks) you can rely on (this helps with the double ratchet encryption of clients with XMPP & Matrix losing keys) unless you go the gateway/bridge route—where the Electron desktop client is pure ass cheeks. Historically they have a big gap in commit history—we can assume there was some sort of CIA/FBI plant. They refuse to use a self-hostable MQTT/XMPP/UnifiedPush option for notifications meaning that the notification data timestamps always flow thru Google & Apple servers. And I am still salty the mobile clients removed SMS support which made it so easy to recommend to family in the first place.
I got my family to switch to Signal a while ago after a high profile data harvesting scandal with WhatsApp. Some were looking at telegram and I showed them how that had dogshit security by just finding another high profile case.
People like to be able to send documents, bank numbers, etc. with ease. Remind them that’s not really possible with SMS or WhatsApp or whatever. (Technically Signal still is centralized and is vulnerable to shenanigans, but the fact that it’s open source and truly E2EE mitigate that. And has the least friction of all the options.)
