God how true this is for all the America bad people
Lemmy has wayyyy to many people who can’t understand that America bad ≠ China good.
Yeah it’s annoying when any criticism of Occupied China results in them talking about America
Well given how Lemmy is mostly American ultra-leftwing it’s weird when they talk about changing China when they can’t even change their own neighbourhood, or even their own home.
Eh, Lemmy isn’t that left wing. It’s just normal left.
Depends on the instance, Lemmy ranges from liberal to Anarchist to Marxist. Most instances lean in one of those major directions, or at most 2.
What the living fuck are you talking about ‘occupied China’
that is the most brain broken anti-historic nonsense I’ve ever heard. The CPC is literally the result of decolonizing themselves. It was occupied until then. Not to be cliched but crack a fucking book holy shit
I am aware of the terrorists sitting back while Real China 🇹🇼 tried protecting the people from the Japanese then not having the strength afterwards
Chiang Kai-Shek was kidnapped by his own guards because he was too preoccupied on hunting down the communists to the ends of the earth to stop the Japanese from running rampant.
I’d love to hear your explanation of how 8000 people hiding in one of the most remote regions of China came to win the civil war, if not through widespread popular support.
So you’re literally a genocidal fascist or too stupid to bother reading the history you’re claiming as the source of your righteousness.
My money is you’re dumb af
Are you trying to deny that more Nationalist forces died during the 2nd Sino Japanese War than CCP forces and trying to call me dumb or are you just pro-Imperial Japan and trying to say they freed China?
As a matter of fact I will take this opportunity to call you dumb because your red herring of ‘who lost more troops against Japan’ has literally no bearing on any point of contention thus far raised.
China good though
-_-
(As an anarchist)
-_-
Who is China good for?
Gets it in one.
There’s a reason everyone is currently demonizing liberal ideology instead of standing up for the rights that the conservatives are working to strip away.
Liberal ideology is a regressive conservative ideology.
It was progressive three centuries ago. It’s not anymore, it’s outlived it’s usefulness.
Unfortunately tankies throw out the good parts of liberalism along with the bad, and endorse throwing people in gaol for wrongthink.
There really aren’t any good parts to liberalism. If you’re a liberal and the current year starts with a 2, you’re a monster. Like full on, need to be forcefully reducated kinda monster.
But to your second point, all nations, societies, and groups need to do that. It’s a fundamental aspect of society. There hasn’t been a society yet that doesn’t.
Not being arrested for publicly disagreeing with the government is a good thing.
Depends on the disagreement. If you think the country should burn and it’s people suffer and are advocating for that, you should maybe be arrested.
Speaking of bad parts of liberalism: it’s wrong to throw Hitler into jail for spreading nazi thought
Look at what your values actually are
Jesus fuck tankies are fucking morons. Do you actually think anybody buys your shitty argument?
If my argument is shitty, please engage with it instead of mugging for a crowd you assume is already on your side
No, I’m not going to spend effort engaging in good faith with an argument clearly made in bad faith.
That’s why I don’t support governments or countries, I support people and anarchist liberation movements :3
No gods no masters
✊️
Hate your state
Peace, Justice, and Anarchy
✊
Only dragons, right?
Only bad dragons 😉
Exactly! I’m so tired of being accused of being a liberal and/or a fascist every single time I note that China or Russia isn’t some perfect leftist utopia, but in fact just another empire that is a pain in the ass not only to other countries but also their own citizens.
China is a fascist ethnostate, Russia is another neoliberal capitalist state, North Korea IMO cannot be described as socialist, Vietnam is pretty cool but mixed and only partially socialist, Cuba is not great tbh just in general, Venezuela is horrible, the Nordic states are just Social Democrat states, Israel has multiple worker co-ops but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re still a genocidal ethnostate, that just about covers all the tankie countries.
Russia has long reached the end state of neoliberal capitalism, fascism. The US is currently transitioning.
If you think China is fascist, you’re brainwashed. There isnt another explanation for thinking the most democratic nation currently on the planet is fascist.
China perfectly fits the definition of a fascist ethnostate. Their economy is indirectly managed by the government while having capitalist elements (state control is the only “socialist” elements), they enforce a language, one ethnicity is clearly depicted as the “true Chinese ethnicity” (despite China having many), censorship is rampant, they’re committing a genocide, and at the end of the day THEY’RE NOT EVEN SOCIALIST.
It’s amazing how you neolibs expose yourselves. You sure you wouldn’t be more comfortable on reddit little buddy?
I’m an Anarcho-Sydicalist -_-
Oh, you’re an idealist stuck two centuries behind everyone else. Capital can and will crush everything you build through your ideology, so drop the anarcho part until capital is eliminated globally, or enjoy being a slave to capital your entire existence.
Democratic countries don’t silence people for outing criticism.
You must be sarcastic, otherwise your comment just doesn’t make any sense.
Good thing China doesn’t either.
The chinese web novel reverand insanity literally got banned for criticizing china. The guy who wrote it can’t write it anymore and you can’t even pirate the novel in china. cuz its been deleted off the chinese internet.
That’s nice and all, but there are literally millions of critics that aren’t banned, whose work is publicly available, who criticize from a place of wanting to improve, not destroy.
China is ML, and if there’s anything MLs live to do, it’s criticize each other.
The vast majority of people that actually get banned from producing certain works either spread entirely false propaganda created by western intelligence agencies ( uighur “genocide” ) or want to remove the government entirely and replace it with a kleptocracy like the US has.
How are you so sure? How do you see beyond western and Chinese propaganda and get to a semblance of truth? Genuine question.
I’ve lived in China for work. It’s genuinely no different than say, the Denmark in terms of “repression” except instead of arresting those that threaten capital, they arrest those that threaten the people (usually on behalf of capital). It’s not an anarchist paradise, they haven’t achieved communism, but they’re likely the furthest thing from fascism that’s still a nation. Anyone that claims to be on the left and dislikes their methods or compares them to fascists are genuinely either not on the left, or are baby lefties stuck in the 1800s in terms of reading and philosophy.
the most democratic nation currently on the planet
Sorry, but I didn’t see anyone mention Denmark or Norway anywhere in this thread.
Why would anyone mention racist petrocountries that are essentially Saudi Arabia but white?
Too many reports for the comments of this post so I’m locking this
You got me. Vivat Roma!
It’s something that really bothers me about communism and socialism being derisive in the US, even in 2024, about 35 years after USSR fell.
The alternative to community-centric society is autocracy, typically devolving into monarchism.
Death to monarchists!
I mean “atheism” is still a dirty word in politics, thousands of years after the prejudice against that started. Apples to oranges, sure, but just goes to show how long it takes for public opinion to shift sometimes.
It’s kinda unavoidable that if one major power loses influence, another will benefit from the vacuum. You can’t really oppose your own country’s imperialism without making the case that other countries taking advantage is an acceptable risk.
This is more or less the story of WWI. With the increasing tensions and military buildup, socialists of countries across Europe formed the Second International and agreed in the Basel Declaration, which said that they would use the crisis to rise up simultaneously against every imperialist power and put an end to both the war and to capitalism:
If a war threatens to break out, it is the duty of the working classes and their parliamentary representatives in the countries involved supported by the coordinating activity of the International Socialist Bureau to exert every effort in order to prevent the outbreak of war by the means they consider most effective, which naturally vary according to the sharpening of the class struggle and the sharpening of the general political situation.
In case war should break out anyway it is their duty to intervene in favor of its speedy termination and with all their powers to utilize the economic and political crisis created by the war to arouse the people and thereby to hasten the downfall of capitalist class rule.
But once the war actually broke out, most of them found reasons to rally around their country’s flag. German socialists pointed to the conditions of serfdom under the Tsar and pointed to the massive colonial empires of Britain and France, while British and French socialists argued that Germany undemocratic under the Kaiser and had more responsibility for starting the war. They mostly agreed that both sides were bad, but they said they were only fighting to safeguard their countries “against defeat” rather than for victory, but regardless, for all intents and purposes it was the same thing. Of course, in all of these countries, there was considerable political pressure and propaganda pushing them to fall in line and to regard the enemy as worse, and many people did what was personally advantageous regardless of what they had said previously.
There was only one exception, where the socialists took advantage of the war to overthrow their government, without regard for the possibility that it could help the other side, and they did end up ceding a fair bit of land too, but they were able to put a stop that that theater of the meat grinder everyone was being fed into.
Listen, I’m as anti-imperialist as the next guy. But realistically if the core of capital that has nearly unopposed dominion over the entire world recedes, another entity that deserves the moniker of ‘empire’ completely equally will step in to fill the void! And if that’s the case, we should just support the most morally righteous empire. Ours >:-D
Nature abhors a vacuum.
Turtle Island managed to not have white people using such logic for thousands of years just fine
Tankies support the more problematic empires such as Russia and China.
Did you not read the meme? Imperialism is bad no matter who is doing it, and arguing over which empire is more ‘problematic’ is counterproductive, as we should oppose all empires instead of wasting all of our time and effort on getting on each other’s throats.
The vile Russian Empire, with its Romanov dynasty, super problematic. If Peter is so great, why does he look so wimpy compared to Joe Rogan? Hah, those stupid tankies don’t even realize the Chinese empire has been abolished for over 110 years!
Sorry for being snarky… Of course modern China is an empire. Just without overseas military bases. A soft empire, one might say.
without overseas military bases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Garrison
And if you’re gonna say Hong Kong doesn’t count because it’s already been assimilated into the empire, that’s not great evidence against it being an empire.
TF you mean ‘assimilated’
If I lease you a part of my house (AT GUNPOINT NO LESS) for 10 years am I doing an imperial aggression when I move my stuff back in afterwards?
So imperialism is okay when you have a de jure cassus belli?
I’m strongly of the belief, by reading them in the context provided, that you don’t know what any of those words mean
Imperialism - building an empire by exerting control over foreign powers
de jure - by law
cassus belli - cause for war
So conquering other places is okay when the law says you have a good reason to send soldiers marching down their streets?
What’s that behind your back? Are you hiding a pile of severed children’s hands because they didn’t harvest rubber fast enough??
Goodness, thanks for reminding me, now I won’t sleep. Regardless, THAT empire is thankfully gone.
It’s literally the same empire you live in
I also noted this was a problem with the Rebel Alliance (who just supports a republic of oligarchs), and was called a centrist for my efforts.
“But they’re the good guys!”
