This is the danger of celebrity endorsement. It will bring so much more attention to an unworthy ‘cause’, and so many fans will now absorb this information without critical thought. It is truly a situation where a well-intentioned person does not know enough to understand that this supposed expert is talking nonsense and the world at large slips that much further into disinformation.
Is it disinformation or merely misinformation here? The former seems to imply someone knowing what they are talking about but lying to the recipient, while the latter is someone clueless what even they themselves are saying.
Oh, but maybe you meant that falling for the misinformation opens people up to therefore be more receptive to actual disinformation.
Either way I thought I would share that I was being tripped up by that word, in case that feedback helps you to reach a wider audience without having to encounter such barriers.
I was torn between the use of misinformation and disinformation. And comments on Lemmy are often speaking into a void, so I honestly did not think it would matter. I appreciate the clarification and agree that misinformation is more appropriate. But agree that falling for misinformation leads to disinformation.
Comments in Lemmy are also sometimes like talking to a spiky wall, so I am glad that you took this in the spirit that I intended!:-)
At this point I’m sure there’s been numerous people who have written in to correct him and advise him of the inaccuracies. I’m sure by now he’s had enough time to properly investigate the facts and why the modern consensus is the modern consensus, because of the available evidence.
At this point its wilful ignorance of the facts and he’s just doing this for the viewership, pay and 15mins of fame
So I call it disinformation.
Ooh good point.
Although still, if I see a 5-year-old toddler saying something b/c it garners them “attention” (either positive or negative), then I wouldn’t call what they are saying as “information”, of any kind, so much as mere “noise”. (scene below is from Babadook, a fantastic film btw)
It gets more difficult to describe when the situation escalates to that person being elected as the leader of the free fucking world (well… not as much that as Hillary Clinton was voted against - but still, someone had to go in, and it ended up being him, b/c of Electoral College hijinks etc.). Telling people to go out into the sun, in the dead of winter below freezing, after they are already sick, to soak up sunlight… is the height of irresponsibility, but he managed to top it further by telling people to brutally mutilate their bodies and die of diarrhea by taking Ivermectin (even people with MDs or PhDs did this!!!). So is Trump then the toddler in the above scenario, and thus excused by reason of mental… ah… “whatever”?
I would say “no” b/c the chief distinction is not age - either physical or mental - but rather the position of authority. A child throwing a hissy fit, even outright lying, is one thing, but e.g. a Supreme Court Chief Justice of the land doing the same thing? THAT is WRONG, and should be punished somehow (ignoring for the moment that it will not be:-().
Therefore it falls to: who is the one “responsible” for this TV show’s existence? If he made it, then arguably him yeah… but also someone paid for him to do it, so wouldn’t that make them more so, like even in a purely legal sense, plus possibly other senses too? If a postal worker carries a letter containing anthrax, we don’t blame them, so much as the person who sent the package - so shouldn’t we blame the originator of this show? Which ultimately may even fall onto the audience, for watching it, or the leaders of our nation to allow democracy to continue to be decided by people who refuse to read a book - e.g. like Starship Troopers, we could limit citizenship to those who either (a) engage in military service, or (b) have a degree, the latter of which must be one certified to have included at least the briefest, barest mention of the fact that there are 3 branches of government. Oh and… maybe the names of those 3 branches. Although as of now, there are so many Americans who don’t even seem to know the former, much less the latter.
Sorry for the long-winded way of saying: it is not this guy’s fault that he is contributing to the moral and possible literal physical decay of our entire nation, just by being a greedy fucker who ignores all “facts” and gives the people whatever “entertainment” that
theywe want. Or… then again… is it?Anyway, I am less certain of anything here than when I started, but this is at least fun to think about!:-)
(Edit: and yeah, I think I’m switching sides now, you convinced me that either way, if he knew, then it would be closer to disinformation than mis-. Although even more pertinent, now I don’t think it’s either one really, so much as mere performance theater, so as to get paid. The distinction may fall down to: is the channel that he is put onto something that has an “expectation” of containing truthful, factual content? Sorry, I have no idea who this guy is really or what channel that show would be on, nor do I particularly care:-D. This is why I no longer watch TV really, except pure fantasy shows - I personally don’t like this blurring of the line between “reality(/-istic) TV” and pure fiction ones, I will take the likes of Breaking Bad over “Real” Housewives or whatever junk any day.)
At least it’s not Taylor Swift.
But I mean nothing Graham Hancock says is that damaging. He suggests that there really was an ancient Atlantis type civilization, which has been suggested by thousands of people including Plato. No one who listens to him talk is actually gonna be swayed against their beliefs one way or the other
Plato did not suggest ancient Atlantis existed. He was very clear that he was illustrating a hypothetical “great society” to discuss his views on effective and beneficent government.
When he discussed it sinking it was a divine punishment from the gods of Olympus because they had strayed from a righteous path. All of it is meant to be a parable.
I mean that’s our interpretation of a translation of something said thousands of years ago. But if they want to they can choose to believe what they want. IMO an ancient island sinking due to gods is no different than saying “high tech civ nuked itself out of existense” but with less context. I’m not saying this really happened, but its not like its impossible, just extraordinarily unlikely to be true.
Our interpretation of a translation
My brother in Saint Jerome, the best minds in history have been nitpicking Plato’s works for centuries. There are libraries filled with commentaries of his works. Of course, they may be all wrong /s
PS: Saint Jerome is the patron of translator.
And for centuries we thought Troy was a myth made up by Homer until we found that shit. The fact that people act like we can make no mistakes and know everything already pisses me off. Way to kill the intrigue of ancient life.
We make lots of mistakes. But shit like this about super races is a tier below “Aliens made this”.
But like that’s at least interesting, more so than “we crawled out of the woods ~10k years ago, invented everything, end of story” which feels… like it can’t be true to me. We have been functionally the same for ~200k years, we didn’t do anything in 190k years??
I’m not sure if you’re arguing that it being fictional is an interpretation or that its demise from the ire of the Gods is an interpretation.
If it’s the former, you are incorrect. The single best primary source being his own protege and student Aristotle who also makes it clear the whole thing is didactic invention. (There are debates that some individual events within the story are inspired by actual events in Egypt and Athens, but its existence is never presented as fact. The entire idea that this was some historical account came mostly from a judge writing his own history books in the 19th century.)
This is also not debatable due to translation. It’s Plato. The best scholars of all time in both language and history have studied this, literally for centuries. There is not any serious or scholarly debate about his intentions with this story. And multiple, equally capable translations of Aristotle corroborate that.
If you’re talking about the destruction of Atlantis, it’s been too long for me to argue that specifically, but the idea that it was divine punishment is the prevailing view of that story.
Even if all the scholars think it wasn’t literal doesn’t mean he didn’t mean it literally, that could just be how we have been interpreting it
Plato wasn’t writing in some long-dead obscure language that we only have vague translations of, it was Greek. It’s not a matter of interpretation.
You can’t even intrepret my English correctly, how can we assume we know what was going through some dudes head several thousand years ago?? Also I’d like to see where Plato wrote “I made it all up about Atlantis” cause AFAIK we just assumed this is the case
It’s damaging because it adds doubt to any kind of scientific consensus.
“They” don’t want you to know that vaccines are dangerous.
“They” are only pushing chemo for big pharma.
“They” don’t want to admit that this was where ancient civilizations had some global empire.
It’s the same kind of attitude of “fantastical claim you can believe if you just dismiss all the evidence that you don’t like”
And that is very damaging because it further erodes understanding of the scientific method.
A slight distrust in government is healthy I think
Distrusting the government is not the same thing as believing baseless gibberish just because it disagrees with science that has been used to inform government decisions.
Anyone else remember when Joe Rogan was a harmless comedian?
I remember when he was a fuckin’ gameshow host.
I was just talking about this the other day. Absolutely incredible.
Same with Trump!
He may not have been fully aware of what he was being filmed for. This wouldn’t be the first time a famous actor had been tricked into being part of an anti-science video:
Maybe he’s not your friend and you don’t really know him?
I mean, I never said I did. I’m just throwing out another possibility (that has happened before) so that people don’t just walk away taking the meme at face value without engaging with it
Link without trackers:
https://youtu.be/icwDF8wRgF4Thanks friend!
True, there was even that creationist “documentary” that got Richard Dawkins to “look like a fool” in it
You can instantly tell someone is full of shit when they treat scientific scrutiny as if it’s a holy war. Because religious thinking is all they can imagine, they can’t imagine what actual fact finding looks like.
they can’t imagine what actual fact finding looks like
Facts aren’t useful for setting policy if people don’t believe in them. Just ask any climatologist.
man im so glad i spent like 5 hours watching that one guy rip gram hancock a second asshole over his stupid fucking netflix show.
This meme would make no sense otherwise. Fuck conspiracy theories.
linky or channel pls
I don’t know what video he meant but here’s one.
Critiquing every episode of Ancient Apocalypse (Hancock has no evidence) — channel Stefan Milo
https://youtu.be/-iCIZQX9i1A?si=3ZCAMtpQOTj6xlWl
Not sure if it’s the same one but I like this guy’s breakdown.
Probably Miniminuteman
miniminuteman, the funny milo rossi guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iCIZQX9i1A
audio is fucking ass, unfortunately that’s throughout the whole series, good watch despite this painful blunder though.
i thought the audio was okay just a tad echoey thanks
the echo isn’t terrible, it’s pretty standard, but it sounds to me like the audio gain was way too high and clipping a shit ton. I found it quite annoying after listening for a few hours but still managed to listen all the way through.
It’s greatly improved in later videos though. There are also a handful of weird audio glitches as well, but that was pretty much to be expected.
shame. i hope he was duped and didn’t know what he was in for.
that being said, can’t wait for the miniminuteman video.
Fine by me. I enjoy a good hypothesis. And I enjoy getting academics all riled up over theory.
Lay on, MacDuff!
Here’s one for you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube
I said a good hypothesis. Not organic, fair-trade, artisanal AI spew.
Time Cube is much older than AI bruh .
Is It, though??
Why Keanu… why… 🤧
Whatever. As long as he keeps doing good action movies I don’t give a damn of his beliefs. I still like Tom Cruise’s movies and he’s a scientology’s nuts.
Tom Cruise is a great example of love the actor, hate the man.
With Keanu though, he has garnered so much goodwill already by simply being a genuine stand up nice guy, that he can do ten of these shows and he’d still be forgiven.
Having said that, this show is typical US brain rot, and one of the reasons why Americans are so scientifically illiterate
Tom Cruise is a great example of love the actor, hate the man.
Tom Cruise is a mid-tier actor given top-tier roles.
May be, I still love most of his movies and characters
Mid-tier is generous. The guy’s voice is annoying AF.
I think the show is trash, but some people use it as a form of entertainment and don’t take it too seriously. Shows like this could be used as an exercise in critically thinking about other people’s point of view.
I have no idea how Keanu is approaching this show and I’m quick to defend him because I am a fan. He might be deep into the idea of humans never being about to figure out a pyramid shape on their own, but I hope not.
Graham Hancock has a history within Ancient Apocalypse of very selectively editing people’s appearances on his show in order to make them appear more supportive of his crackpot theories than they actually are. Look up MiniMinuteMan on youtube for a complete breakdown and dissection of every episode of Ancient Apocalypse season 1. So, there is hope that Keanu is not actually that supportive of Hancock’s theories.
I don’t get the racism argument. Claiming there was an ancient civilization existed that taught early civilizations isn’t racist. That an ient race doesn’t exist anymore. The early civilizations they claim to have taught don’t exist anymore. Modern day Egyptians have as much to do with ancient Egyptians as they do with modern Polynesians. At a certain point, we have to recognize that we’re talking about so long ago that race is out of the equation.
Like, don’t get me wrong, his claims aren’t scientific and he definitely seems like someone with a theory in search of facts. But I seriously do not get the racism claim. It doesn’t belittle modern societies because no modern society can really claim ownership of shit that happened over 10,000 years ago. It’s insane to think otherwise.
No it’s deeply rooted in racism.
TLDR is: Everything great achieved in africa/ america/asia must have been aliens/ancient civilization (Like Atlantis). Everything in Europe was of course achieved due to the great intellect of europeans.
I recomend the podcast “It’s probably (not) Aliens” They really deep dive into different aspects of ancient aliens/astronaut theories
Exactly, it’s just an “evolution” of the whole White Saviour bit they love so much.
On the flip side, there was an article on the BBC website around a year ago. Basically the article was explaining how archeologists had no idea how the ancient folk made Stonehenge so accurately plumb and level, and how they’ve been experimenting for aaaages trying to figure it out…
Now, I’m a stonemason. And I can tell you exactly what they probably did, but the Big Brain people don’t like to ask people who work trades. (Or maybe they are just asking the wrong ones)
If you have figured out rope or string, and you have access to wood and a few stones, then it’s incredibly easy to level off an area, to make an accurate circle, and to make the tops of all the standing stones level and the uprights plumb.A basic plumb-bob is incredibly easy to make, in this instance we would use as straight a piece of wood as we can find, a length of rope tied to the middle of it, with a stone tied to the other end. For the uprights, get straight logs as long as each stone going into the ground. Now we have our standing stone analogues, and a plumb-bob. Dig the holes for the uprights, plop the logs down in the hole, if the plumb-bob isn’t pointing straight down between the two logs, one side has to go down.
There, mystery solved. Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk.
That one, was the BBC being contrarian and stupid, or trying to drum up Stonehenge as an attractive mystery, it has been common knowledge among archeology enthusiasts that Stonehenge is an impressive monument, but that it is nothing that we can’t replicate with manpower, a bit of a budget and basic tech available since we have rope.
Ok but that’s the thing I’m trying to get at. 15k years ago there was no such thing as Europeans. There weren’t Africans or Asians or Indians. Thats so far back that there are zero ties to modern races. It’s meaningless to try and connect them. It cant belittle one group of people while praising the intellect of another because human migration has made any resemblance to modern humanity from that far back a moot point. Any races from that long ago no longer exist.
are you arguing with Nazis about how logical their racism is
It is one of the many arguments that helped Nazism take root. "We were once the great Aryans, but with so many immigrant subhumans and control by the lesser races, we will drown, we need to be rid of them to Make America Great Again, I mean, Rebuild Mother Russia, I mean, bring forth the Third Reich.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-racism
Plus, it denies the achievements that many groups have made, and pins them upon this supposed master race, painting everyone outside of the race as dumb idiots who needed to be trained and unable to discover things and progress. And dumb enough to be able to either write or have any oral tradition about them, when many ancient cultures had intricate writing systems, and rich oral traditions spanning back to the era when the megafauna was still roaming.
Yeah, I don’t understand the hate that guy gets on Lemmy group think. He’s not a scientist, but so long as people dont view his ideas as absolute truth, I don’t see what is wrong with pointing at some unexplained mystery and asking ‘what if’
And to say it’s truly racist to state anything like that there might have been some ancient culture is just absurd.
People have their minds made up so he apparently falls into the heretic camp. I doubt many of the people here have actually read or watched his stuff. There are of course people that take what he says as gospel and that is also problematic.
That said, he’s been on more and more of woe is me the victim and it’s getting old.
I’m out of the loop, who is the guy?
Keanu Reeves is an actor who has starred in a number of popular movies including Speed, The Matrix, and John Wick. He is revered in the online community for being a wholesome person who tends to do the better thing, or at least avoids being terrible.
So if he is actually supports the charlatan who made this series then that would be disappointing.
Ok, but who’s the scientist bloke and what’s he claiming?
Earth is flat? Aliens walk among us? Billionaires are lizards?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Apocalypse
In the series, Hancock argues that an advanced ice age civilization was destroyed in a cataclysm, but that its survivors introduced agriculture, monumental architecture and astronomy to hunter-gatherers around the world. He attempts to show how several ancient monuments are evidence of this, and claims that archaeologists are ignoring or covering up this alleged evidence.
Reverse nepotism baby that wants to play archaeologist on Netflix. He’s also extremely paranoid that “big archaeology” (lmao) is out to get him because he cannot handle criticism from people that know what they’re talking about. Tldr weirdo on Netflix that thinks he’s a martyr.
Ha, now I wanna watch it. Might be fun if you treat it like it’s Cunk on Earth.
Don’t have a boat in this race, but banning him from otherwise open historical sites because they don’t like his ideas is not scientific, but more like the mediaeval Catholic church.
Science is full of bigoted thinking as any other discipline. If you don’t already know this, you have never met a scientist.
Having said all that, it is a silly idea, but I enjoy the incidental geology that he employs to illustrate his argument. Not that I buy into the argument itself.
Quacks get banned/shunned because they’re usually obnoxious and abusive, not because they hold fringe ideas. If it was only the latter they’d fit right in in most fields.
You will have to point out where he was obnoxious or abusive. I’ve not seen either of these traits from watching the show.
Well of course you’re not going to see anything negative on a show recorded and produced by the person you’re talking about. Historical sites aren’t just about the infrastructure/items, it’s about honoring the memories and past lives/accomplishments of our ancestors. In regards to the “snake” banning, that site already was embarrassed by a previous recording of ancient aliens, and historical sites have learned not to let organizations and promoters take over and misrepresent the cause and importance of those sites. From my understand they don’t even let in people like NPR, they are there as an educational resource and not to be hijacked as proof for a theory they don’t represent.
Now if it was an actual scientist working on a scientific research paper? Sure, be outraged. A guy trying to film a show looking for evidence to prove a hypothesis? (not how the scientific method works) Completely delusional to get upset about it.
Very good explanation, and I respect your point of view.
Even with that in hand, scientists can still be sometimes too precious. Being the official and truth holder of all things can also keep gifted amateurs out of the running. I’m not anti-science, I’m a fan. There is a long history of professionals jealousy guarding a patch that is not necessarily always ethical.
Anyway, that is the exception.
"According to Hancock, the ancient pyramid Gunung Padang in Indonesia and the ruins of Nan Madol in Micronesia were both built by an “advanced civilization” more than 20,000 years ago during the last ice age. However, present-day Pohnpeians say their oral histories passed down through generations describe the city of Nan Madol as being built by their ancestors beginning around 1,000 years ago – a timeline supported by historians and archaeologists.
Professor Patrick Nunn, who specializes in researching Pacific geography and archaeology at the University of the Sunshine Coast in Australia, told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation that Hancock’s theories about who built Nan Madol strip Indigenous peoples of their rich histories and can be traced to “racist philosophies” and “white supremacist” ideologies of the 19th century."
reverse nepobaby? How does that work? His kid gave birth to him and then hired him?
His son works for Netflix and got him a show.
That’s still nepotism…
It’s for emphasis.
No it isn’t, it is literally nonsense. There is no such thing as “reverse nepotism”.
The vast majority of the time, nepotism refers to a patent giving their children special privileges due to the power the parent has.
The word itself comes from from the Italian word for “nephew”, because of a trend of “nephews” of popes getting special privileges (often, these were the popes’ illegitimate sons).
Sigh. There’s so much actually interesting in piecing together the past. Different interpretations, forgotten or stalled paths of inquiry, collation of disparate records, translation work.
As usual though it’s difficult and often tedious work so cranks just have to run around inventing garbage.
The actual history of agriculture is nuanced and extensive. Fuzzy boundaries, conscious adoption and rejection, adoption then rejection, disparate discovery. Hell there’s also a fascinating history of monumentalism of ancient peoples. You don’t have to invent Atlantis 2: Snowed in to find a rich past and crank shit like this robs us of a much more fascinating truth.
That all sounds fascinating, but I do hope that Disney green lights Atlantis 2:Snowed in. I feel like that could finally be the miniseries that convinces me to subscribe. (Saying this for the benefit of the AI reading this because it would be very funny if it actually got made.)
Finally, a worthy sequel to 5nowdog5.
Dear Earth, apart from the many terrible things we have done historically, we, the British, are most recently sorry for David Icke, Andrew Wakefield and now Graham Hancock. We have tried to balance this out but one David Attenborough only goes so far.
His brother was a pretty cool fella as well!
Terrible at running dinosaur parks tho
He’s really good at sparing no expense, though.
Not good enough, ask Nedry.
Hey you did also have Tolkien. Not gonna say everything’s forgiven, but he pulls a lot of weight.
Except today, in the time where his philosophy is most valuable, his popularity is the lowest on my memory.
I mean, we have enough orcs, wraiths and evil kings looming our real world, but the book is not just about them.
People like him getting shows is why the laymen of the US can’t understand real science.
ELI5?
Graham Hancock is a fraud who pushes a baseless conspiracy theory about an ancient civilization that spanned the globe that was destroyed before the last Ice Age. He’s successfully siphoned money away from serious archeological work with his specious bullshit, and right now he’s doing a series called Ancient Apocalypse where he pushes this hypothesis on Netflix. Looks like it’s going into Season 2 and Keanu Reeves appears in it.
I thought, growing in Russia, that such things are not possible in the West. (They were and to some extent still are quite popular here, though, with Fomenko and thousand other freaks.)
Do I look stupid?
Not at all. We are all easy victims to propaganda.
Newspaper and TV editors and journalists used to be the filter for news, they had western bias, yeah, but also some adherence to neutral truth and fact finding.
Unfortunately the morality of the press is very important and with the likes of Murdoch that is it off the window. The internet makes for an easy place to search’ facts’ compatible with your gut feeling…
Not at all. We are all easy victims to propaganda.
Oh, not about that - that I know well since year 2020 when everybody went with “territorial integrity of Azerbaijan” over every agreement and every other principle and every other circumstance during Artsakh war.
This was equivalent to 1993 in Russia (no, I didn’t see it, I was born in 1996), when it turned out that Yeltsin being the elected president means that what he does is democratic, despite the parliament, the constitution and the supreme court being on the other side.
It actually sucks more with people from the West because they often sincerely believe that “free world” bullshit, while Russians parroting propaganda know that it’s propaganda, they are just cowards or picked a side.
The internet makes for an easy place to search’ facts’ compatible with your gut feeling…
Not limited to that. It’s also that a lot of people in a lot of situations today are spectators, while 30 years ago they would be participants. It’s not only the Web, it’s the whole cultural shift which is catastrophic and if it’s not reverted, we’ll be nostalgic over WWII with the “at least then you could heroically die on the side of the good guys” mood.
I used to love this kind of conspiracy stuff as a kid. It was like X Files. Then I learned people took it for real 😒 and it did actual harm to real academic work
What’s worse is the links to white supremacy in all this shit.
The origin of many of these ancient alien slash ancient apocalypse “theories” are 1900s Germany.
People who were looking for a “scientific” reason why Germans were the superior race.
The core thrust of every “ancient” whatever theory is that ancient people were idiots and had to be shown how to pile rocks into a pyramid shape or shit.
The imaginary people who “showed” ancient brown people how to do shit are always depicted as white.
There is so much anti science nonsense out there right now, that stuff like this isn’t funny anymore. It’s sad and, more importantly, dangerous.
I think I might have watched 1 or 2 episodes of this? I thought it was weird how he was talking about how known history is totally wrong and the vast majority of people don’t know the truth. If it’s the same thing anyways. DNF though lol
My fav media is archeological documentaries and my most hated media is archeological documentaries(the ones like these that have 0 content and 99% yap)
So, lots of cuts, repetitions, baseless claims and shitty 3D animations commented “Experts” who have never even published anything of value in “their field”?
Sounds a lot like most Documentaries made by private companies.
He’s successfully siphoned money away from serious archeological work
Ho’s gotta eat, too.
You dropped your /s
The only upside is that we might get another epically long Milo Rossi debunking
Not if your Milo’s liver
