Lemmy.world is pro genocide
You SHOULD vote for Joe, but fucking hell this is HIS fault. Voters are a swirling mass of people. It might as well be fluid dynamics. Bad policies and apathy WILL affect support. It’s going to. You can’t stop it. You can’t shame it back again either. You can’t win back tent guy’s vote by blaming him for Joe Biden’s failures.
The most recent weapon shipment is actually on Congress, Joe Biden didn’t want to send it and was forced by a congressional resolution led by Republicans because they know people won’t look into it and the president will take the fall out.
I left some resources to back up these claims in a previous comment .
Get involved with your local Ranked Choice Voting group.
The one for California is https://www.calrcv.org/
Minnesota’s group is approaching this a smart way, from the local up. They’re not spending much time in the high-profile positions; they’re tackling local elections. Gets people used to the idea, and they stack higher and higher positions as they’re going. It’ll take time, but starting at the top and working down is a lot harder.
Is this how CA is approaching it?
Is there one for every state? Better question: is there a page that I can link to literally everyone that lists every such group by state?
I’ll preface this by saying that near any voting system, ranked choice voting included, is better than FPTP. That being said, ranked choice voting does have some issues. Some that, arguably, can make it almost as bad as FPTP. To be more specific for this argument, I’ll focus on the IRV type. The main negative aspects of this voting system, imo, are that it doesn’t satisfy the monotonicity and Condorcet criterions. Regarding this topic, I highly recommend reading this article. It is very well written, and very informative.
Understood, but don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
We just need to improve not perfect.
We just need to improve not perfect.
The one issue with this way of thinking is that since changing such a fundamental system is typically (and, imo, understandably) quite difficult, one doesn’t want to squander the opportunity with an arbitrary decision (I’m not accusing you of making an arbitrary decision, I’m just stating generally), as having another chance is unlikely. Furthermore, experimentation on a mass scale, i.e. country-wide, is generally not a wise idea. One should be firm in their convictions for the decision that they choose to support. It’s possible to cause considerable damage within the edge cases.
You’re right, best deliberate about which one is best instead.
Experimentation? New Zealand, Ireland and Australia already stage elections using forms of RCV.
Write your congressman if they are one of the members that forced the weapon shipments to restart.
In this case Joe Biden did not want to restart shipments but was forced by a Congressional resolution.
Here is a Reuters article covering the resolution, here is the house press release, here is the Congressional voting record.
I am not saying we shouldn’t vote for Biden, but acting like we shouldn’t be protesting the genocide of Palestinians is bullshit. I know Trump would be worse, but it doesn’t mean we should speak out against Biden sending weapons that directly aid in the death of children.
We can’t just pretend he isn’t complicit in war crimes just because the other option is worse. We should be able to speak out against the atrocities.
At least Biden allows the protests to happen. Under Trump, the first protest would be the last as he would immediately mobilize the National Guard and authorize the use of lethal force to suppress it.
As opposed to the police currently beating the shit out of protestors. I understand it would be worse under trump, but that’s a really low fucking bar. We should be asking for better, not settling for the regime which is only maiming protestors instead of killing them.
Is he, though? I know the president isn’t directing this stuff directly, but the harshest crackdowns have been in cities run by democrats, in democratically run states. As the leader of the party he could’ve told local administrators to respect free speech rights of protestors.
You know what? I don’t know he isn’t directing this stuff directly. All the crackdowns happened at the same time in all those Democratically controlled cities, almost like it was coordinated and that someone at the top ordered it.
But maybe it’s just a coincidence. 🤷♀️
I was trying to be charitable to Biden, but yeah, the whole thing of ‘Trump would’ve sent the national guard instead’ thing isn’t really functionally different.
On the other hand, there’s examples of administrators engaging the protestors and giving concessions up to a point where they voluntarily cleaned up their encampments.
Then I think this isn’t directed towards voters like you. It’s directed toward those who say you shouldn’t vote for Biden as a protest.
I am not sure this is effective against those voters. If anything it’s shaming, at best, which causes people to dig their heels in. Addressing those voters as petulant children is not the way to bring them on board.
But the point isn’t to convince the voters who are being shamed, but to lessen the reach of their talking points to undecided or on-the-fence voters by pointing out the absurdity of the talking points being pushed.
If some clown is out there, trying to convince everyone clown makeup is the new style, the goal of mocking the clown is not to get the clown to take off their makeup, it’s to remind everyone that clown makeup being ‘the new style’ is fucking absurd no matter how many times or how loudly it’s repeated, and will make you look like a goddamn clown.
Their myopic crusade will doom the whole planet.
Really? A genocide is “myopic”?
The people who are on the streets organising and protesting for Palestine are the same people who are doing all kinds of organising: unionising workplaces, mutual aid, street medics, etc. to build up communities and create actual positive change in society.
Do-nothing liberals will do absolutely nothing but complain every day of the year. Democracy isn’t a matter of voting once every 4 years.
Besides, most of these people, despite being highly critical of Biden and will show up to vote on the day. They’re just not going to spend the rest of their time campaigning for a lost cause.
Why not put some of the blame on liberals who aren’t doing enough? Or maybe the reactionaries and fascists who do not give a fuck about what the vote says and will do everything in their power to obstruct, ignore, overturn and use violence to get the outcome they want. You’re delusional if you think fascists will just go away if Biden gets the vote.
You lack of concrete action will doom us.
How did you read that into what I wrote?
You know what I meant.
The comic is highly uncritical of any of the levers of power. In fact it entirely omits any imagery pertaining to politicians or legislators or any political party. So the only people it is directed at are those protesting the genocide in Gaza as though it came at the expense of other issues, while giving those in power who have actually ignored or even fought those issues a complete fucking pass.
Like it doesn’t even mention Biden or any sort of strategy or demands the protestors might have, even. Just shames people for protesting a genocide.
The implication is clear, the issues are all matters of voting including “save democracy”. It’s the statue of Liberty, a clear symbol of American democracy. It is clearly directed squarely at people saying protest by not voting for Biden.
I get the gravity of the situation, but Trump’s side has repeatedly made it clear they would go harder on Gaza.
I’m deeply uncomfortable with the amount of people calling those wholly opposed to complicity in genocide as “single issue voters”. Sure, if genocide isn’t enough of a concern for you to oppose candidates that are complicit, then I guess you can call it “single issue”.
We’re talking genocide here, so I’m going to compare this to the most known genocide on the planet. Imagine if we knew about and could see the Holocaust occurring as it happened when it started, and FDR was funding the Reich including circumventing congress. Would you expect people to still vote for FDR, or would you expect people to oppose his candidacy? This caliber of rhetoric as well as this post has turned this leftist away from my plan to vote for Biden. Nice work folks. I’ll be voting for Cornel West and trying to keep the liberal trifecta in my state legislature this year.
If Trump wins, funding for Israel will increase, and even more Palestinians will die. So basically, you’re valuing your purity over human lives. Which is quite fascist, if you think about it.
No, it’s fucking not. Cornel West opposes funding to Israel, supports a 2 state solution, and supports the same issues strawmanned by lady liberty. I value the end of a genocide as well as a socialist economy. If neither of the mainstream candidates will stop the genocide, I’m going to vote for the only candidate that wants to stop the genocide as well as handle the other issues I care about, in a way I’d align with. My barely tepid patience with Biden and supporters like you has run out.
The reality is that either Trump or Biden will win and if you’re not voting for either of them then, practically speaking, you might as well not vote at all. Third party candidates only ever get a tiny fraction of the overall vote and that’s not going to change this time.
I’m not casting a protest vote. I’m voting honestly because there is no way to strategically vote for the less genocidal candidate.
Biden is the less genocide candidate. He’s been getting aid into Gaza, putting pressure on Israel, and directing funds towards humanitarian aid. All of that would cease immediately under trump.
Realistically, the best way to reduce genocide is through protest, donations, and activism. Electorally, the best option is to vote for Biden in the hopes we can keep trump from making thing unimaginably worse.
clearly my message went over your head. Either a candidate supports a genocide, or they don’t. Biden can wag his finger all he wants, he’s still complicit in genocide. The truth is that he’s handling Israel more conservatively than Ronald Fucking Reagan.
If you put things in such stark black and white terms then every president has supported genocide; they’ve been funding Israel since the beginning, and America itself is built on stolen, colonized, and occupied land.
In truth elections have consequences, and across the board things will be substantially worse under trump than Biden.
Stopping gun violence is what the Gaza protestor is trying to to do. Banning bigotry? Yep, same. Save democracy? How? By standing strong with genocide? Not very fucking likely, imo.
For all of the people who will inevitably show up to say “But you can’t criticize Biden, it’s an election year”: man, I can’t imagine offering such a bad take completely unprompted and free of charge. People are throwing tomatoes at you from the shores of history, you just don’t know it yet. Supporting genocide is wrong, period. If Biden doesn’t want to be criticized for it, maybe he should stop supporting it.
Stopping gun violence is what the Gaza protestor is trying to to do.
Because Palestinians don’t fucking shoot and kill people…? Way to jump the shark.
Hamas murdered more people in 1 day than every American school shooting combined.
Do you listen to yourself? What the fuck are you even talking about?Banning bigotry? Yep, same
Hamas is an Islamic terrorist group founded on an explicit call for genocide against Israeli Jews.
They aren’t flying rainbow flags or celebrating pride month this year, either.Save democracy? How?
By voting against a self-described “dictator” who happens to also be an authoritarian kleptocrat who calls every election he’s ever been in “rigged”, pressured Secretaries of States to just make up votes, coordinated false electors to overthrow the election, pressured his VP to call the certification process into question and who generally doesn’t believe in the peaceful transition of power.
I’m not gonna ask you to suck Biden’s cock or anything, feel free to dislike his handling of the Israeli-Palestinian war (a war he neither started nor wanted to happen in the first place) if you want. It’s my view that America’s actions so far have actually saved thousands of lives in the region, and it’s an objective fact that Biden has delivered more aide to Gazan civilians than anyone else. (Don’t let that stop you from being pissed off at the wrong guy.)
But, seeing everything we’ve seen over the last 10 years, are you seriously going to deny that Trump and the Republicans are an existential threat to American democracy?
Supporting genocide is wrong, period
The Palestinians aren’t innocent in this either–they (and the Arab League) threw the first punch back in 1948, and they (Hamas) threw the first punch on October 7th of last year. It takes 2 to tango. Both sides of this fight have been complicit in doing evil shit building up to the conflict we have today. When people say things like “Palestine should be free from the river to the sea”, how can you read that as anything other than a call for genocide against Israeli jews? Hamas surrendered any facade of legitimacy when they conducted a terrorist attack on Israel last year (intentionally killing more people in a single day than Israel has been killing in Gaza on average). Hamas has fired something like 10,000 rockets at Israel (and that’s not counting the attacks from Iran, Hezbollah, etc.), so how many thousands more people do you think would be dead today if Israel didn’t have the capability to defend against those kinds of attacks?
The only peaceful, non-genocidal solution to this ~80 year war is a two-state solution in which Israelis and Palestinians learn to put aside their mutual hatred, dis-empower the extremists who run their societies, and coexist. Neither Hamas nor Netenyahu are capable of delivering this. Hamas will soon pay the ultimate price for their cowardice and terrorism (as they should), and hopefully the Israeli people will see that Netenyahu has failed to protect them and democratically remove him from power.
Yes, you have persuaded me that the only rational course of action remaining is to leave babies to die of neglect after you force hospital staff out at gunpoint, murder ambulance crews and their patients, murder aid workers, murder anyone in the same building as a militant in one of the highest density populations on earth, force men, women, and children to starve when the world is ready to deliver aid, tell people to go to refugee camps and then bomb the refugee camps, massacre people for rushing to a food truck to get food for the crime of being desperate and hungry, destroy their homes and possessions, reject peace deals that include the abolition of hamas as an organization, close off every means of escape, and then move your people into their land once you’ve sufficiently killed them off.
Of all the cases for genocide, you made, well, one of them. I would say that I hope you feel as good about it in the future as you do now, but I wouldn’t mean it, because it’s a fucking genocide and you’re defending it. I get that you don’t seem to want the extermination of all Palestinians, but you’re going to bat for a government that does.
You engaged with a grand total of 0 of the points that I made. So A+ dodging I guess. Congratulations on being a classic bad faith actor.
Hamas are a terrorist organization that openly advocates for genocide and commits war crimes, murdering civilians in cold blood, taking hostages, operating out of hospitals and aide organizations, and using innocent people as human shields. They have a PR department, and they don’t need any new hires right now, sorry.
The only peaceful, non-genocidal solution to the Israeli-Palestinian war is a two-state solution. Fuck Hamas, fuck Netenyahu, and also to a much lesser extent, fuck you. I didn’t “make a case for genocide”, you did. If you think Hamas are going to go down in history as heroes or freedom fighters, you’re as dumb as you are ignorant of history.
I don’t think they’ll go down as heroes, I think this is going to go down more or less how native American genocide happened in the US west. Native Americans would do cattle raids or revenge killings, which were often used as justifications for even more violence against non-combatants (followed by the taking of that sweet, sweet land). Which is more or less what’s happening here. I think the formation of the modern Israeli state was a huge mistake, and now we’ve got to deal with it. Ultimately, no solution’s going to be popular, but letting the IDF commit genocide while saying “but HAMAS” ain’t it. HAMAS has offered to disband itself in the latest peace talks, which Israel rejected. That really just leaves the naked truth that what Israel wants in the land, and if they’ve got to murder everyone there for it, that’s a small price for the US to subsidize.
Don’t worry, single issue voters are very rare. They’re being loud right now on Lemmy, but I honestly don’t see them anywhere else. I’m pretty sure at least a third are paid actors too, but I can’t prove that.
Basically “everyone I disagree with is a paid shill”
So does that mean you were paid to make this post?
Anyone who thinks that foreign or business interests wouldn’t try to fan the flames of unrest in order to influence the election hasn’t paid any attention to previous elections.
It doesn’t mean that the reason for the unrest isn’t valid. They found a weakness and they’re going for it.
I am disgusted with Biden. Punishing his behavior at the general election will result in an even worse situation for the people of Palestine.
Are you prepared to engage in accelerationism?
If being called out on supporting genocide is such a national security risk then maybe biden should stop supporting genocide. Then you get the benefit of removing that as an issue and, you know, not supporting genocide.
That’s why I called it a weakness.
How patronizing is this
patronizing is exactly the right word holy shit :(
i am not a single issue voter and i’m highly critical of those telling me to utterly ditch the blue vote. but i am very uncomfortable with this portrayal of the pro-Palestine movement and i hope you, the reader, are too
the artist of this should feel some level of shame i think
You’re reading too much into it. The cartoon isn’t about those who support Palestine. It’s about those who make it their only issue. Ending up only hurting themselves and everyone else.
Under a cartoon representation of a quite standard-looking Palestine supporting protester.
“The cartoon isn’t about those who support Palestine.”
What textual or external evidence do you have for this? Genuinely what could I be missing here lmao? Open to correction but this sounds like you are gaslighting urself?
Edit to be very specific: The comic depicts what might be called a “generic” protester. And then puts words in their mouth that are not often heard: “I’m busy.” Not a popular slogan or anything.
There’s one protester, one speech bubble. That’s 100% of the protesters on the page, where the uncommon speech is inserted into the generic. Hence my interperetation that the artist is representing all pro-Palestine protesters here as single issue obstructionist bad actors, which is an obvious non-truth
It’s kind of a visual strawman, in other words.
It’s a political cartoon. They’re visual generally not textual. So there’s at least your first problem of many. Though I think your problems are all of your own design. That you think that represents all Palestinian supporters says more about you than it does about Palestinian supporters.
But let’s analyze your own claims using your own required proofs. Where does the textually say anything you’ve implied?
Hi there, just wanted to mention that visual texts are quite prevalent in rhetorical media (e: of which political cartoons are very much a part despite your strange assertion.) Thank you for considering this perspective. I would appreciate it if you could provide evidence from the visual text or another source to support any alternative interpretations.
An example of my perception: in a political cartoon, a white guy wearing a red MAGA hat might be perceived as representing Trump supporters. There would need to be considerable evidence for me to believe that such a symbol represented a specific subset of that group, of such a kind at least that I do not see here.
I may not engage in further answers to your questions until I receive a response addressing the evidence provided. Thank you for understanding, and I value your perspective.
Edit: I do see that you blocked me. So, that’s excellent :/
Your link has nothing to do with political cartoons. Could you be any more smarmy disingenuous or obvious. You can’t even defend what you said. Nor can you admit it. Worse you resort to lemmygrad posting and making shit up. Proving that you’re not engaging in good faith. The least you could do is make my name bigger on that image so people would know to laugh and ridicule you quicker.
