So Israel went from “We’re just defending ourselves from Palestine” to “Actually, Palestine never existed, that’s a Neo Nazi myth!” huh?
Fuck israel.
Israel threatens 3/4 of the world. Lmao.
That, and their leverage is pretty weak. Small dogs bark the loudest.
In terms of sheer military might, the size of Israel’s military is very substantial compared to the listed countries. Other countries would likely come to their defense if it happened, but if it came to a fight between Israel and just Norway/Ireland/Spain, it would be very hard to call Israel a small dog. Spain might be a bit of a challenge but Norway and Ireland would likely barely even register.
Obviously, all those countries have friends and are probably pretty safe because of that, but also not entirely idle threats.
lol, Israel isn’t part of NATO. If they somehow got involved with Norway or Spain it would trigger Article 5. Ireland would trigger the entire EU. Israel is very much a small dog, especially at the rate they are burning their credibility in the western world. They’d have to turn to Russia for friends and that would mean the US bombing them to destroy sensitive American equipment they have and don’t want the Russians seeing no matter what.
I mean, no one said they were? What did you think we were talking about in like at least half the comment you’re replying to. I mentioned that other countries would step in several times, what did you think that meant? Like, are you just restating my comment for me? I don’t get it.
Really, the only scenario where this is more than interesting world building is kind of what you mentioned though. I.e., if NATO falls apart and the US also fucks up relations with Israel leading to them ending up on Russia’s side with others in some kind of World War 3 situation.
The point is it would never be just x country and Israel.
I mean yeah, that is exactly what I said in the initial comment at least twice, and then again.
I don’t understand how we’re somehow arguing and saying the same thing.
Norway having a small military and being easy to bully sounds familiar, perhaps the Russians remember how that goes and can explain.
Finland didn’t have a small military in the Winter War. In the 90s-00s “era of peace” or something many European countries have all but abolished their militaries and forgot how big they should really be.
Small compared to USSR’s, but it was enormous by measure of today’s European armies, and you still need a lot of people to control territory today, just like 100 years ago.
Yup. They’re very efficient militarily, as is Finland. See the Skjold-class as an example of their engineering style.
*Skjold (which means “shield”)
Efficiency is a thing and Norway might have an advantage there, but for example… the Skjold, there’s 6 of them in existence and the complement for them is listed as 15 people.
The Norwegian Navy as a whole is 25 boats of various sizes, Israel is not a lot better with 67 and skews towards smaller boats and neither side is equipped to fight anywhere they both could reach. The entire Norwegian Navy is about 4,000 personnel compared to 9,500 for the Israeli Navy. It would be the weirdest Naval battle with two sides that have no business at all having a naval battle, but if they were determined to fight and could figure out where, the advantage is on Israel.
If you just look at numbers maybe, we can see from Russia (large navy) vs Ukraine (no navy) that there are serious disadvantages when waging a war of attrition, even with relatively near distances and supply lines.
The Israeli navy has no meaningful capability control Norwegian waters and they would be insane to try.
It’s unreal how people do not understand the difference between defending a homeland, invading a country via an easily traversable large land border, attacking a country across a geographic barrier and attacking a country in a whole different part of the world. Israel’s ability to threaten mainland Europe would not amount to anything beyond terrorism, though potentially nuclear terrorism. All of Nazi Germany, fielding the industrial capacity of most of Europe was probably not capable of successfully invading even the UK across the English Channel, even if they weren’t distracted on the Eastern Front. They simply didn’t have the naval power required.
Not wrong from a historical perspective, but Norway would be outnumbered around 10:1 in manpower in modern times. Kind of hard to measure the… ‘level of military technology’, but Israel keeps it up to date and Norway hasn’t had to make that a real priority beyond posturing for awhile. Obviously not the likeliest scenario, but if everyone else stayed out of the way and they could figure out how to fight each other, that’s a really hard fight for Norway.
Does Israel have much ability to project that far outside its own border? Even ignoring all the countries inbetween that aren’t going to help.
It is definitely an unlikely hypothetical due to both sides having allies/etc and yeah, the logistics. It would kind of be like Russia declaring war on something like… Paraguay. The problems with logistics are mostly the same on both sides though, it’s just a matter of figuring out how they would fight. From there, and yes, there’s a lot to think about to get to that point… but, if they were determined to fight and everyone else was determined not to intervene, Israel has a pretty clear advantage in terms of military might whichever metrics you look at.
The real interesting piece is the Spanish Navy… as in Spain does have a legitimately impressive navy and even though it’s a long cruise, they could probably get to Israel with it whereas Israel does have a navy, but to my knowledge, the only area where they really excel there is with submarines. Israel would be completely outmatched in the Mediterranean if they could figure out how to fight in it.
The other side of the Med is not a long cruise for the Spanish Navy.
I guess it is relative, but that should be over 2000 miles, it’s hard to call that short. I don’t know the exact speeds of the Spanish Navy, but assuming perfect conditions and let’s give them 25 knots, that’s still going to run you ~4 days at top speed for the big ships.
I can’t think of a better method for Spain, but it’s a long enough voyage that no one’s going to surprise anyone.
Well yeah. Most strategic stuff in war isn’t a surprise though.
I don’t think anyone was suggesting anyone had the ability to surprise any country with the presence of an aircraft carrier. They kinda stand out. The location of every major aircraft carrier group in the world is public knowledge, there is literally no point in trying to conceal it.
Israel has zero expeditionary capability, that is not how military conflict works.
They just think that magically the countries will somehow share a border and then mighty isnotreal will win.
I think they may be able to reach Spain with transport planes (suppose these are not shot down because it’s impolite) and drop a brigade or two.
But considering how incompetent their army has shown itself to be (basically like Russia or Ukraine in the beginning of their war), I’m not sure that’d be very scary.
In any case there’s one country in the EU which has a competent military that participates in various kinds of violent shit kinda often, thus with institutional experience. That’s France.
Spain has a far, far larger mobile military strength than Israel. Like it’s not even comparable. Israel has zero operational landing craft as far as I know. Spain has a carrier group. The degree of military capability flex that is operating even a single carrier group is insane, I wouldn’t discount Spain as being basically demilitarized lol. Only 10 countries in the world posses a carrier capable of fielding fixed wing aircraft and it’s dubious how quickly Russia could get theirs running, it is currently undergoing repairs.
I stand by what I’ve come to the conclusion on over the last little while. The underlying problem is the Jewish diaspora has not healed from the historical persecution they face. That is quite frankly everyone’s problem. What they’re doing is 100% wrong but when taken in the context of “hurt people hurt people” it makes sense. I don’t know the path forward, but I do know it’s not going to happen without some very brave leaders in the Jewish community to step up and call it like it is.
Ive also been mulling the idea that Palestinians needs to charter their own Truth & Reconciliation to lay it all out in the open.
The diaspora is fine. Every American Jew I know is horrified at Israel’s actions. This is Colonial Settler violence. We’re just not used to seeing it in the 21st century.
Crazy mental gymanistics
Exactly. A child molester does not get to molest children legally if he was molested as a child. It may be a reason for it but it doesn’t make it right
I don’t think this take is consistent with understanding Israel as a colonial project.
Sounds familiar, where I have heard this one before? 🤔
I know what you mean, but I’m just short of remembering it. Oh well I’m sure some German person could help us, they’re great at remembering this stuff.
Are those the same severe consequences that Putin keeps talking about if the Ukrainians keep fighting back?
“Why yes, we have every intention of starting and starring in World War 3 featuring the USA as our fellow baddies, thanks for asking!”
The very moment the U.S. outright enters war on behalf of Israel, is the moment a real insurrection should occur in D.C.
I agree, but unfortunately believe if anyone takes up arms on the side of Palestine, we’re going to drop troops the next day.
“Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir also condemned the move Wednesday and said **the response from Israel would be to intensify its operations in Gaza.” **
That’s right! We’re gonna genocide harder! That’ll show em whose right!
I love this. “Israel invades Norway” would be such a great news story to follow.
Fuck off. That was the deal you signed up for.
Apparently Ireland’s economy is bigger than Israel’s;
and Spain is over 4x the size of Israel’s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
Tax havens have distorted GDPs
Bring it on lol
So much for the 2 state solution.
Israel can’t kill everyone before they get wiped out.
Israel and Palestine have been fighting for a long time, since before you were born probably. I’m not on either side but I don’t see either side getting wiped out anytime soon.
The Palestinians are being pushed out or killed. Call it what you will. This isn’t a political issue. It’s seen by most of the world as unacceptable on a human level. There’s no coming back as a viable State for Israel. Gonna be a nasty mess unfortunately.
The Samson Option?
We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: ‘Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.’ I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.
Or maybe you prefer:
What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away—unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans—have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?
Yeah, I know about all that. It’s a bullshit-ass plan cause that few devices aren’t enough to destroy the world. Israel then dies and life goes on.
Well shit looks like they made themselves model candidates for the Render Safe mission. B21 stealth bombers and Delta Force, for when you need those nukes “secured” overnight.
Maybe we should sanction them.
Yeah. Probably.
“Sorry best we can do is more bombs, officially define antisemitism as calling these guys assholes, and, uh, oh yeah, giving their military benefits packages!”
Don’t forget threatening to sanction the ICC over the Netanyahu arrest warrant.
sooo much shit, it’s hard to keep it all in one post.
Yeah this is the one that made me finally go “really Biden ?”
All that work putting together a “humanitarian help” system which was only ever meant as propaganda and never meant to actual put a dent in Israel’s Final Solution of death by Starvation, and Biden throws all that aways like this.
Bet even his Campaign and Press people are pissed of at that one, though probably not for “normal person empathising with the suffering of others” reasons.
Not sure how the Jewish would think about this but I’m starting to think it’s antisemitic to link the Jewish and Israel (apart from Israel defining itself as a Jewish state). Funny how that might go full circle.
Oh, have no doubt about that.
And it’s pretty straightforwardly so: for example claiming that somebody demonstrating against the killing of children by Israel is an anti-semite is implying that killing children is a Jewish thing to do, which is incredibly close to the “Jews eat babies” kind of propaganda from the Nazis: even the worst actual antisemites in the present day weren’t going around claiming that murdering children is a Jewish thing to do.
That’s just how out of control the Israeli ultra-violent and extremelly racist Fascists and their racist Fascist supporters in places like the US are.
I grew weary if anti-genocide protests being framed as pro-palestinian.
Neither side is entirely free of bloodshed. It’s about stopping the bloodshed which means, I’d think, reducing the us vs them, not entrenching it.
Does anyone know how that framing became so consistent? Not in a speculative way, but with evidence?
Well, in the tribalist kind of thinking everybody must always be pro-some-faction or against-some-faction and the far-right (including Fascists tribes such as Zionists) are seldom deep thinkers and skeptics, so are almost without exception tribalists.
So it makes absolute sense that Zionists (and members of other political tribes whose “chiefs” have decided to support Zionism) claim that people who are demonstrating because of their Principles (in this case Humanist ones, like “though shall not kill innocent civilians”) are doing so because of being pro-some-faction. Further, I would even say that the Zionists absolutelly believe that claim they’re making and are speaking the truth as they see it: they simply cannot conceive of people being anything but tribalists who will put tribalism above all else (even any leftover Principles they might have) so people must be pro-some-faction or anti-some-faction to be demonstrating.
(PS: Whilst this is not evidence, it does match what I’ve observed first hand in situations like the Brexit Referendum in the UK. It also matches my observations as member of a political party in my homeland, since most political party members tend to be tribalist, even in leftwing parties, which as somebody who returned from abroad with no pre-existing “love for the team’s shirt” and chose a party to join and help based on the principles they seemed to support, made me quite an atypical member and gave a wonderful chance to observe political tribalists in their “natural environment”)
This is also why I believe a lot of the propaganda techniques being deployed by the Biden Campaign to try and get votes from people who are against the current actions of the Zionists because it goes against their Principles are incredibly misguided - Principled people aren’t pro-Biden or even anti-Trump, they’re pro or against some kinds of action no matter who does it, and things like “aversion to the murder of children” tend to be some of the stronguest principles around so likely to be much stronger for a non-tribalist that the “uuh, those other guys are bad” tribalist-heavy arguments.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many people don’t end up in the voting booth, intellectually ready to swallow their Principles and vote Biden purelly to stop Trump, and can’t actually bring themselves to cast a vote.
Anyways, all this are theories and if Biden keeps on supporting the Zionists and their Genocide, we shall see.
I dunno. It definitely will incentivize “otherising” of the Jewish diaspora. Which may be a tertiary objective of it. And it will definitely lead to increased conflict.
Which is a shame because most the Jews I know well enough to talk to about it, are extremely anti-genocide, and they’re vocal about it because… they know “I’m Jewish, [awkward stare]” is a great way to not get dinged for politics at work. (At least when the political topic is Gaza.)
You are absolutely right on that. It keeps many anti-genocide Jews silent. It kept me silent for a very long time. I didn’t even like talking about being Jewish. What changed my mind was a British documentary by a British comedian named David Baddiel called Jews Don’t Count (based on his book of the same name), which is specifically about the “othering” of Jews, especially how many white people don’t see Jews as white, but most non-white people don’t see Jews as non-white. It’s made me more vocal about things. I had already seen the documentary a few years before, but what has truly cemented it for me was the “you have said the actual truth” tweet by Elon Musk in response to someone who said Jews were oppressing white people.
It was streaming somewhere where non-Brits could see it (I think Dailymotion), but it doesn’t appear to be there anymore.
especially how many white people don’t see Jews as white, but most non-white people don’t see Jews as non-white.
There are people who are Jewish and non-white though - Ethiopian jews for example.
Which seems to negate the (Zionist-created) argument that there is such a thing as a Jewish ethnicity in the first place, as opposed to Judaism simply being a multi-ethnic faith like Christianity or Islam.
Clearly though plenty of people who are Jewish are also white. And clearly there is a history of denying them this Whiteness once their faith is “discovered” by those they know. Same as Irish or, to a lesser extent, Italians and Slavs. Which is wrong - as is the concept of race/ethnicity/“Whiteness” in the first place
The vast majority of Jews are white. Yes, there are a few exceptions like Beta Israel, or what you call Ethiopian Jews (less than 200,000 people) or Yemenite Jews (Around 400,000 people), but considering there are around 16 million Jews on the planet, around 11 million Ashkenazi and around 2 million Sephardic. I think “Jews are white” is, as a general rule, a correct statement whether or not someone like Elon Musk think otherwise. I mean there are non-white Icelanders, but I think most people would say that claiming Icelanders are white without specifying that that’s only a generality is acceptable as a statement.
But there’s a difference between saying most Icelanders are white and saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic.
Either ethnicity/race is a necessary component of belonging to a group, or it isn’t. And if it isn’t, then idk how one can claim that such a group is an ethnicity.
So long as human beings who are black, Arab, Asian, etc can be Jewish, then idk how we can say that Jews are an ethnicity
No one is saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic or Jewish. The point is that when Elon says “you have said the actual truth” to someone who claims Jews are oppressing white people, he isn’t thinking of Beta Israel or Yemenite Jews. He isn’t even thinking of Sephardic Jews. He is thinking of Ashkenazi Jews, who are white. He just doesn’t understand that. He very likely doesn’t even know non-white Jews exist… but the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we’re talking about.
It is deliberate. Zionists love antisemitism. They love it when Jews are attacked outside Israel so they can claim to be the only safe place for them in the world. They love to use antisemitism to attack Jews, who do not want to be associated with Israel or are even critical of Israels practices or worst “questioning their “right to existence””.
I’m starting to think it’s antisemitic to link the Jewish and Israel
It definitely is. There’s few things more antisemitic than assuming that all Jews approve of the fascist government of an apartheid ethnostate committing genocide with impunity.
It’s right up there with the Alex Jones “globalist” conspiracy theories.
I am Jewish and yes, it is antisemitic to consider all Jews as Israelis. I do not support Israel, I have no affiliation with Israel, I have no interest in going to Israel apart from the archaeology. I’m from Indiana and I have a hell of a lot more in common with a Christian from Fort Wayne than an Israeli from Haifa.
Also, I know this is totally anecdotal, but every Israeli I have met in my life has been an asshole, which doesn’t exactly endear me to their country.
Netanyahu is the one who benefits most from people thinking all Jews are Israeli. I sure as hell haven’t benefited from it considering how many times I’ve had to justify myself just for who my ancestors were.
Thanks for your input!
It’s crazy how the media portrays the ‘critisizing Israel is critizing the jewish’ position. Even politicians, at least in the west, lean in to it, but this could be due to the geopolitical position of Israel as an ally I suppose.
I have met a few cool Israelis, but I still wouldn’t want to visit that country. Kinda like Iran, I played video games with a group from Iran for a long time and they are good and kind people, but I wouldn’t ever want to visit them because I wouldn’t feel safe in their country.
I’m sure not all Israelis are assholes, it’s just amazing that I’ve met a good two dozen Israelis and all of them have been assholes. Just arrogant as fuck.
Fallout 5 en espanol.
Does Bibi actually think he can go toe-to-toe militarily if he dares to step out from behind the protection of his iron dome?
