• Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    You’re making it look like it’s Ukraine’s choice. They’re being forced to the nuclear path by the internal enemies within NATO that are fucking everything up

    • mkwt@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Ukraine gave up those nukes in exchange for security assurances. If Russia is going to go back on its assurance, then Ukraine should be able to go back to the nukes. Fair is fair.

      As a former SSR that held nuclear weapons on its territory before 1968, they even oughta be free and clear with respect to the non proliferation treaty.

      • SplashJackson@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        I been saying this for years, and it’s really nice to see someone say this too while also not getting 1000 downvotes. I shed a tear of joy for the new generation

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        As a former SSR that held nuclear weapons on its territory before 1968, they even oughta be free and clear with respect to the non proliferation treaty.

        Is that true? If the worst comes to pass, I wonder what the UN will say (not that it matters…)

        • jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de
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          1 month ago

          what the UN will say

          “Well, they have nukes now, so international law is now more like international suggestions for them”

        • mkwt@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          This is NonCredibleDefense. So it’s true if it would be funny if it were true.

          • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            In UN

            Russia’s deligate is beyond furious. Most everyone has an awkward look. China is getting very annoyed with their vassal’s war, and someone on the floor:

            wringing hands “Well technically its within Ukraine’s rights…”

  • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    It’s a bold move but I don’t see it changing the outcome of the ongoing war. If Ukraine could build long-range ballistic missiles in the near future, I think they could regain the advantage even without any nuclear warheads. Nuclear warheads would not be useful without those ballistic missiles.

    (What would happen if Ukraine did have nuclear-armed ballistic missiles but Russia refused to withdraw from Ukrainian territory? I don’t foresee Ukraine actually nuking Russia, even in those circumstances.)

    • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      No they won’t!

      They supported nuclear options only so long as their cock-holster putin was the only one with said option.

      Now it becomes ‘Everyone has to forcefully disarm a rogue nuclear state for Russia!’ or some other bs.

      Give them time, their talking points are slow over the weekend.

    • PostingInPublic@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      No development required, I think they can open a drawer somewhere and pick one of several soviet designs. If they want a nuke, they can build one right away.

      It would cost them the support of their allies, however, and they cannot afford that.

      It’s saber rattling.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        The support may be dropping away anyway.

        Imagine a right wing US/EU election sweep from Zelensky’s point of view. They’re going to force Ukraine to capitulate, and in a very lopsided manner that cripples Ukraine forever, hence this could be an actual option/last resort more than a threat.

        • Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          Would a right wing US government force a capitulation? I was under the impression that support from the US was bipartisan.

          • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Are you kidding? Trump hates Zelensky with a burning passion, because he personally wronged him.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Ukraine_scandal

            The Trump–Ukraine scandal was a political scandal that arose primarily from the discovery of U.S. President Donald Trump’s attempts to coerce Ukraine into investigating his political rival Joe Biden and thus potentially damage Biden’s campaign for the 2020 Democratic Party presidential nomination.

            He’s going to screw Ukraine and offer Russia a favorable capitulation the absolute first second he can. And probably offer Russia Zelensky if he can manage it.

            The Republicans are increasingly turning anti-NATO as well.

            Oldschool Republicans lawmakers 100% support Ukraine, maybe even stronger than Democrats do. Some are still hanging around the Senate, but most are gone or retiring soon (like Mitch Mcconnell), and they’re already gone from the U.S. House and Trump’s cabinet.

            edit: Now that I think about it, Mike Johnson (The US House speaker) did make a suprise decision in support of Ukraine and in defiance of his own party, but his position as speaker is extremely precarious. I don’t think that will happen again.

            • Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works
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              1 month ago

              Not kidding, just a foreigner. I assumed it was bipartisan given America’s hatred for Russia over the past few decades. Didn’t realize Trump was so bully for em. I knew about the whole “he’s a Russian not” conspiracy but given that seemed to be false I assumed it was more accepted by both sides that Ukraine should have aid.

              • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Aplogies for being rude.

                Yeah, Trump’s fascination with strongmen is more of a personality quirk than policy, but the attitude of the Republic party has abruptly shifted from “anti Russia/China” to more universally protectionist and isolationist. If you watch Tucker Carlson (for instance), you’ll hear a lot of questioning like “why should we have to pay for all this madness overseas?” and accusations its feeding the US military industrial complex… and there’s a nugget of truth there. The oldschool Republicans have been steadily losing power, and this is kinda the tipping point.

                If Trump wins, expect to see a lot of noise about withdrawing from NATO, pulling out of large trade agreements, “abruptly” settling disputes, tarrifs. Things like that, basically the exact opposite of the old neoliberal paradigm.

                He also holds vicious grudges, something he did before he even got into politics, so that may color some foreign policy as well. If he’s acting strange towards some person in particular on the news, search for “Trump (X) controversy,” and something from before 2020 will probably come up.

              • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                We didn’t hate Russia.

                We didn’t care.

                Do you hate a rat you saw once 5 years ago?

                At best we held them in quiet contempt until Crimea, then 2022 pulled the contempt to the surface.

                Personally I think we need to set an example, dresden comes to mind.

          • PuddleOfKittens@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            The right wing has been making loads of pro-Russia noise, but do also try not to alienate their popular support too much before they’re in power.

            Realistically, Trump will sell out Ukraine to Russia if he’s offered a good deal, but there’s no point publicly destroying his ability to welch on supporting Russia before he’s paid to support them (if you can’t afford to walk away, you can’t afford to negotiate), and there’s no point in Russia paying him before he’s actually in power and able to make the US govt cave in the first place.

      • Anivia@feddit.org
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        1 month ago

        Building a nuke is not difficult. Refining the necessary amount of uranium 235, or acquiring plutonium 239 however…

        • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          He’s stated they have the material and could have a nuke within weeks I believe.they have reactors so the material isn’t hard to come by really

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          The engineering for plutonium nuke is not trivial. A U235 one is dead simple, but they probably have Plutonium from reactors, not U235 from centrifuges.

          And yeah, they undoubtedly have Soviet blueprints under a matress somewhere.

          • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Who do you think designed the Soviet nukes?

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Institute_of_Physics_and_Technology

            The Ukrainian Institute of Physics and Technology was the “Laboratory no. 1” for nuclear physics, and was responsible for the first conceptual development of a nuclear bomb in the USSR.[3]: 4

            Russians are inbred drunk morons, which is why everything they tried since the fall has been disastrous, and why we haven’t seen su-57s and t-14s in actual combat while the semhat exploded on the pad and their own bombs rained on their soil.

            If the war goes on expect them to nuke Moscow by mistake.

        • Skua@kbin.earth
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          1 month ago

          Considering how the world’s biggest uranium producer by far is Kazakhstan and Russia seems to be actively determined to tank Russian-Kazakh relations, I’m pretty sure they could acquire some

      • actually@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        It can’t be saber rattling at this stage, it’s a promise.

        Maybe one that cannot be kept, but I seriously doubt the allies could stop it if the fronts retract and troops from nato countries are not sent?

      • verity_kindle@sh.itjust.worksM
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        1 month ago

        Maybe the support is not worth losing the war. In “The King and I”, the King of Siam has a verse “…If allies are weak, am I not best alone? …If allies are strong with power to protect me, might they not protect me out of all I own?”

      • slaacaa@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Looking at Israel, the “don’t ask permission, ask forgiveness” strategy really works with the US (a good example is also Kursk attack, Nord Stream 2 or Kerch bridge sabotage). They should just be doing crazy shit, forcing escalation on Russian side, and thus in response by the US/NATO. Of course this is a delicate balance, but a few nukes on paper I think would still be okay.

        These could guarantee the existence of their nation in the future, and unless they use them on a Russian city, no repercussions would happen beyond verbal saber rattling just for having it. Russia would definitely shit themselves and dial back on the agression.

    • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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      1 month ago

      nuclear is neither about having, nor using the weapons … it’s about the fear of future use of weapons

      silence isn’t helpful in that endeavour

  • Mio@feddit.nu
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    1 month ago

    They only need to get rid of one little coward hiding in his bunker - Putin. It would be a whole different story if he was on the front actually fighting because so many Russians die there.

    • verity_kindle@sh.itjust.worksM
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      1 month ago

      I wish, but he has lots of people to succeed him, who also piss and shit all over other people’s stuff. Can you imagine a female version of Putin? There is one- Maria Belovna, IIRC her name. She is the kamehameha beyotch in charge of stealing children from Ukraine and putting them in “education” camps. Unfortunately she is in her maximum Cartman’s Mom years. Not old, not young. I think she, even though a civilian, should be moved up the list for wet work, treated just like a Russian military officer and charged with war crimes in absentia. Car ignition go pop.

      • Mio@feddit.nu
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        1 month ago

        Sure, there may be others that are willing to set up and follow in his footsteps. But remember - the people is afraid of one specific person - Putin. People do not fully dare to go against him. Any new leader will not have the same kind of respect. So that means people may have higher chance in succeeding to stop the war.

        • verity_kindle@sh.itjust.worksM
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          1 month ago

          I couldn’t disagree more. I hope neither of us turns out to be right. I hope Russia has its own Maidan that topples the dictators, that’s what it’s going to take, unfortunately. Maybe 100 bloody Maidans.

    • beejboytyson@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Remember the Russian sucking dick right before getting blown up by a drone? I think about how life is cruel sometimes.

    • nuke@sh.itjust.worksM
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      29 days ago

      Is that a problem? You don’t want your meme shared or something? I thought it was great.